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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those of you in North America....seems APR is having a promotion for the month of April in that for the cost of a base flash you get all the optional maps/features available for your model vehicle (which were at extra cost)...the one disrtibutor stated he would discount the flash even more if I didnt want the other items but I find the abilty to revert the the OEM map handy!

I've been doing research but it's very hard to obtain objective data (for my needs - only want a stage one flash) as everyone raves about thier APR, REVO GIAC...etc..flashes...

I was seriously condering the STaSIS flash (by GIAC but significant R&D effort by STaSIS spcific for the TT) but about 2x price of the others....

Seems like APR has been around the longest and seems to have the most resources - given the current promotion, I dont think anyone else offers this bang for your money.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's very hard to extract objective views on which flash is best for me - I have learned APR seems to have the most resources in North America than Giac & Revo and the faact they offer a "clean" and convienient way to revert back to the OEM flash using the OEM cruise control stalk sells me on thier product. I'll have to wait to have my DSG issues resolved before I proceed.

The only thing I'm not clear on is thier dyno charts seem optimist - I'm stating this as the baseline HP/torque figures seem high as if they are reporting "at the crank" figures.
 

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twocati said:
The only thing I'm not clear on is thier dyno charts seem optimist - I'm stating this as the baseline HP/torque figures seem high as if they are reporting "at the crank" figures.
Sorry, they are not.
My dyno runs have always indicated they are very much on the money.

BTW within the Volkswagen/Audi world it's fairly safe to say that APR do more R&D around the world than the rest put together.
It's interesting to note that most of the R8 supercharging and twin turbo tuners are turning to APR for their electronic tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
twocati wrote:
The only thing I'm not clear on is thier dyno charts seem optimist - I'm stating this as the baseline HP/torque figures seem high as if they are reporting "at the crank" figures.

Sorry, they are not.
My dyno runs have always indicated they are very much on the money.
Thanks Senator however what I was refering to is on the 2.0T FSI charts which is rated 200hp/207tq yet thier dyno shows a basline of 212hp and 224tq. When I called APR today, they confirmed they were displaying "crank" horspower not wheel HP which is why the baseline is higher than the OEM rating.

I do agree they seem to have the most resources and experience...
 

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twocati said:
twocati wrote:
The only thing I'm not clear on is thier dyno charts seem optimist - I'm stating this as the baseline HP/torque figures seem high as if they are reporting "at the crank" figures.

Sorry, they are not.
My dyno runs have always indicated they are very much on the money.
Thanks Senator however what I was refering to is on the 2.0T FSI charts which is rated 200hp/207tq yet thier dyno shows a basline of 212hp and 224tq. When I called APR today, they confirmed they were displaying "crank" horspower not wheel HP which is why the baseline is higher than the OEM rating.

I do agree they seem to have the most resources and experience...
I am going to echo Senator. They are careful to not "over promise and under deliver" they are very much perfectionists, and they have such a crazy impressive state of the art facility that after seeing it in action, they are the only tuner allowed to touch my car now!
 

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Can anyone explain what there is and is not room for on the TTS reflash? Can the security lock out work and switch between stock and a program? If there's not room for that, do you have to go back to APR to go back to stock?

Thanks,

Ken
 

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twocati said:
Thanks Senator however what I was refering to is on the 2.0T FSI charts which is rated 200hp/207tq yet thier dyno shows a basline of 212hp and 224tq. When I called APR today, they confirmed they were displaying "crank" horspower not wheel HP which is why the baseline is higher than the OEM rating.
Don't all manufacturers quote power at the crank?
 

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When I spoke to Awesome they said it could only hold performance program, no switching back to stock and no extra features. However REVO said they could load performance software, allowing for boost and timing adjustments as well as stock map and security lockout. I am following this up at the minute. Just need to see what GIAC to see what they can do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What I'm having a hard time understanding is:

1. the 2.0T is rated at 200hp/207tq by Audi and APR's baseline dyno is showing 212hp/224tq
2. the TTS is rated a 265hp/258tq by Audi and APR's baseline dyno is showing 265hp/279tq

I was under the assupmtion that the Audi rating is at the crank, so any baseline wheel dyno would yeild lower figures due to driveline loss - but I really don't know what to believe anymore ......
 

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I have the APR stage I tune on a base 2.0 TFSI. I also have a full turbo-back exhaust and diverter valve upgrade, both by AWE Tuning.

Daily drivability is almost identical with the tune. In low rpms (1000 - 2500) the engine feels slightly less powerful at partial throttle. Above that, there is a ton more power. No more or less judder, no stalling, idle is smooth as stock, etc. It's pretty much close to stock until you build revs or give it a lot of gas. Mileage is either the same as stock or slightly better.

Under hard acceleration the car clearly develops a lot more power. It pulls much harder throughout the entire rev range, although there is a lot of perceived turbo lag because the boost level is much higher now (22psi.) I'm sure it's just as powerful as stock as the boost builds. However, the difference under full boost is huge, so the time spent spooling up is very obvious.

In short, it's as good as stock at the regular stuff, but makes a lot more power when you ask for it.
 

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twocati said:
What I'm having a hard time understanding is:

1. the 2.0T is rated at 200hp/207tq by Audi and APR's baseline dyno is showing 212hp/224tq
2. the TTS is rated a 265hp/258tq by Audi and APR's baseline dyno is showing 265hp/279tq

I was under the assupmtion that the Audi rating is at the crank, so any baseline wheel dyno would yeild lower figures due to driveline loss - but I really don't know what to believe anymore ......
Audi's quoted spec will have been arrived at with an engine dyno and they then make a subjective decision using statistical method (and legal) to decide what is a safe spec to publish.
APR would use a wheel dyno to measure to the same spec using standard correction algorithms in the software that give the derived crank specs.
To this we add the variables of different dynos, different operators, different software.
A 6% difference with the 2.0TFSI, given these constraints, is hardly worth noting.

What is important is the APR stock and the APR Stg1 curves and it appears that APR are doing the honest thing by publishing the stock and Stg 1 curves as measured by them on the same dyno.
 

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Senator said:
What is important is the APR stock and the APR Stg1 curves and it appears that APR are doing the honest thing by publishing the stock and Stg 1 curves as measured by them on the same dyno.
I'm also hoping they are honest enough to do them as close to possible in the same day. As weather changes, so does the power output.
 

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I have apr ecu remap for my 07 a4 2.0t. i heard that this voids the manufactures warranty. is that true? i know there is a setting in the program that puts it back to stock specs when you take it for service, but i have also heard that a good audi mechanic might spot it at the dealership.its really want the flash, but don't know if its worth voiding the warranty. What you think? thanks.
 

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I'm also considering either APR or REVO. I've had both on a previous car (B6 A4 was stage 1+ with APR then went to BT with REVO software) - both companies seem to have years of experience with the S3/ TTS platform. Both have spring specials; however, my car wont be in until early June so I'll have to "hurry up and wait" and hope for specials at that time.

APR- Spoke with the dealer nearest me (5 hour drive) and they believe the 2010 TTS ECU uses updated encryption requiring it to be physically opened ("boot strapping"). This concerns me from a warranty point of view as well as this increases the cost of chipping. Since only one program can be loaded, the wonderful stalk switching doesn't apply.

REVO- spoke with Chris @ REVO USA who suggested the older encryption is being used for the 2010 TTS ECU so regular chipping can, in fact, be done but they havent formally released files for the 2010 models. That said, I dont recall getting a definitive answer regarding the capability of switching to stock to avoid anyone knowing that the car is chipped immediately upon taking the car for a test drive. He also suggested that although its possible for a mechanic to detect that the car has been chipped (via scanning), its been suggested that most would have no idea how to do this.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has had the opportunity to compare APR to REVO software on the same car. I'd love to do a back to back comparison on my car but the closest REVO dealer is a 1.5 hour drive away and in the opposite direction to APR (total of 6.5 hour drive). I plan to install a MIlltek down pipe/ HFC so am interested to hear from anyone with stage 2 software ...
 

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Some have said APR feels a lot more OEM whereas REVO feels more aggressive from quite low down. To be honest I don't think there is much to chose between the big tuners at stage 1. If you are thinking of going stage 2 or 2+ then until recently REVO has had the strongest gains. But APR seem to be catching up.

I have been receiving conflicting stories regarding the TTS ECU as well. REVO claim they can install a switchable map, APR say it can only hold one map.
GIAC are also looking very attractive in terms of progression. Their extreme map looks set to break the 360hp barrrier on the stock turbo :?

I think you need to find people with these different maps on and compare their cars. I'm doing the REVO/GIAC comparison next weekend, just need to find an APR car.
 

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2zeroalpha said:
Some have said APR feels a lot more OEM whereas REVO feels more aggressive from quite low down. To be honest I don't think there is much to chose between the big tuners at stage 1. If you are thinking of going stage 2 or 2+ then until recently REVO has had the strongest gains. But APR seem to be catching up.

I have been receiving conflicting stories regarding the TTS ECU as well. REVO claim they can install a switchable map, APR say it can only hold one map.
GIAC are also looking very attractive in terms of progression. Their extreme map looks set to break the 360hp barrrier on the stock turbo :?

I think you need to find people with these different maps on and compare their cars. I'm doing the REVO/GIAC comparison next weekend, just need to find an APR car.
have you considered vagcheck??
 

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2zeroalpha said:
Some have said APR feels a lot more OEM whereas REVO feels more aggressive from quite low down. To be honest I don't think there is much to chose between the big tuners at stage 1. If you are thinking of going stage 2 or 2+ then until recently REVO has had the strongest gains. But APR seem to be catching up.

I have been receiving conflicting stories regarding the TTS ECU as well. REVO claim they can install a switchable map, APR say it can only hold one map.
GIAC are also looking very attractive in terms of progression. Their extreme map looks set to break the 360hp barrrier on the stock turbo :?

I think you need to find people with these different maps on and compare their cars. I'm doing the REVO/GIAC comparison next weekend, just need to find an APR car.
Interesting info, thanks. Based on the very aggressive tuning by GIAC on the B6 A4 (very high CF's), I'm not sure I'm as comfortable with them. Please provide feedback on your comparison when you get a chance.
 
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