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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just an FYI for anyone heading this direction over the summer now that more people are back on the roads with Covid restrictions pretty much over. This came out back in 2020, but it's a far warning to anyone who's not up on the latest German, Swiss and French road rules.

In addition to the information below, Germany, France and Switzerland have outlawed the use of Apps like Waze and Coyote that can be used to alert other drivers of speed traps or police stops. The Swiss even went as far as figuring out how to track down a Waze user who had alerted other drivers about a speed trap and fined them 10,000-Francs.

Under updated German traffic laws, speed camera alerts programmed into a GPS system are illegal.

TomTom and Garmin out notices to their customers to let them know that they should not use this feature that’s built into the GPS system. If they do, they could be fined 75-Euros.

Granted, it will be extremely hard for German police to enforce this. If drivers are using the system and therefore riding within the speed limit, there should be no reason for them to receive a ticket or get pulled over. That means there will be little chance for a police officer to know if a driver is using a speed camera alert system on their GPS system or smartphone.


Still, this legislation could have an impact on future GPS systems and smartphone apps. Now that the feature is outlawed, it’s likely that it will stop being offered by Garmin, TomTom, and GPS smartphone app developers. Clearly, German officials don’t want riders to know where fixed speed cameras are located.

As it turns out, when you now go online to update your maps with Tomtom or Garmn, it will automatically shut off any speed camera alerts when you enter a country (e.g. Switzerland, Germany, etc.) that bans a GPS from showing where fixed speed cameras are located.

One guy I know got around this by putting a "favorite" short cut button on the home screen of his Navi. Every time he passed a speed camera he simply tapped the short cut button which added it to his "Favorites" folder. Then after saving them as a Favorite, he moved them into a new POI category he created called "BP Gas Stations".

Then he set the Navi to alert him every time he's near a POI under the "BP Gas Stations" category. Instead of a speed camera icon, the GPS displays the BP gas station icon. Seems like a lot of work, but I guess it beats a traffic fine if the authorities feel the need to inspect your GPS.

Be aware that some regions in France have dropped the non-highway road speed limit from 100kph down to 90kph. And in the Netherlands, they have dropped non-highway road speed limit to 80kph as well as lowering highway speeds in certain areas.

Bottom line, be sure to check the latest traffic laws if you plan on heading over to the continent anytime soon as things have changed over the past few years!
Wheel Tire Car Motor vehicle Vehicle
 

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Surely that some kind of breach or infringement of rights! - that’s a bit like monitoring people just “in case” they do something wrong. I can’t see how being alerted to a speed camera is a bad thing - it makes you slow down for one thing! - I suspect this has more to do with revenue from fines being circumvented by people who use devices as they are designed to be used.

Its no different from the wife as a passenger shouting out “darling, there’s a speed camera ahead, you better slow down”

Are they gonna ban your wife next? 😂
 

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Under updated German traffic laws, speed camera alerts programmed into a GPS system are illegal

^^^^^^

Thats just insane, I can’t possibly see how that can or should be legal or enforceable. Why would they ban something or make it illegal if there wasn’t an “upside” for them. Generally speaking, if one is aware of a speed camera, you drive more safely - surely to god if the ability to see them is revoked, it will only result in more fines and more high speed deaths.

Way to go German government. They must be desperate for cash from people speeding 🤔

This just reminds me of when I was tootling along at around 30mph when all of a sudden, a policeman with a speed camera jumped out from behind a bush to clock me at 33mph - 3mph over the limit.

They are sneaky little beggars only out to make revenue from fining people. It was gonna be £100 fine for me and 3 points on an otherwise unblemished licence since 1992 when I passed my driving test at 18 yrs old.

I was offered “rehabilitation” at the cost of attending a driving course, paying £80 for that and no points on my licence.

Of course I took the latter - did it make me a safer driver? - no. Because I was safe already over the course of 30 years, they just happened to spring out and clock me a few mph over by ambush.

I think here in the UK the whole speeding system is crap. The whole system should be revised to penalise repeat offenders, not those who have accidentally exceed the limit fractionally.

For those who get caught once fractional over, a warning and a small fine circa £50 and no points, for a second time a larger fine, maybe £250 and even more points and for a third time a period of banned driving with a hefty fine such as £1,000 or even something like 30 days incarceration - of course depending on how far over the speed limit is….if doing something ridiculous say 80 in a 30, skip straight to major fine and points and potential jail time etc.

That would certainly make me think about speeding, even though I’m not a driver who speeds - I much prefer the opposite!

Drivers need to realise the potential actions for their driving, full stop. After all, we are all driving a potentially lethal weapon no different to a gun or knife - it’ll still kill someone if it’s used inappropriately.

Bottom line, speed kills lots of innocent people, I have some first hand experience of this. No details needed.

Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that makes people slow down when they’re speeding is a good thing, it’s not a reason to ban people from knowing about speed, IMHO that’s a good thing.
 

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If you live in a country that bans radar detectors then it is not surprising that an app that alerts you to the presence of a radar trap would be banned. In one case detection is obtained via human observation and the other by frequency monitoring but they both result in 'radar detection'.

Radar detector (& jammers) are mostly legal in the US. I use to run one but have found that here in Washington State highway patrol seldom deviate from their hiding positions (and we don't have photo speed cameras :p) so a detector isn't much use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Speed cameras do one thing and one thing only...they generate revenue. Lots of it!

In 2021 at least ten German cities received more than one million euros from speed camera fines. The front runner was the city of Hamburg with 17.1 million euros earned off blitz cameras. In 2019 Cologne made 17.6 million and Leipzig extracted 11.6 million euros from drivers wallets. Almost all cities stated that they gained far more revenue from speed cameras than their installation and maintenance cost.

These two are typical fixed speed cameras found here in Germany. The one of the left is the newer version and has been popping up for decades. The one on the right is quite old, but still found in smaller rural towns and along roadways. The red light flash or "blitz" is just to let you know you were caught out.
Sky Plant Green Yellow Motor vehicle


Mobile speed cameras shown below are the real threat. The set up on the left is what you usually see (or don't) on the autobahns and roadsides and has a crew near by who operate the system in a police van. However we are seeing more of the newer unmanned versions shown on the right. This is the latest mobile blitz trailer they drag around and park randomly, sometimes moving it several times a day. Video here. (Use the CC/subtitles feature to translate it to English)
Plant Tree Tripod Grass Vehicle


Coincidentally, one of these new ba*tards got me yesterday! Sure enough, it was parked around a blind corner here in town where I have never seen one of these before. I wasn't over by much, but I expect my wallet will be about 15-Euros lighter next week after the letter comes in the mail. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, and then there's this gem hidden in a trash bin! If nothing else, you have to give them points for creativity! :ROFLMAO:
Waste containment Waste container Road surface Asphalt Sidewalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Oh the French have fought back!

French media reports that there has been a sharp increase in the number of vandalized speed cameras following the Gilets Jaunes (Yellow Jackets) protests across the country. In some areas, the number of damaged cameras is almost 95%, with 21 out of 22 cameras out of operation in the in the Puy-de-Dôme area.

You won't see it as much in Germany, but vandalism to speed cameras in France and Italy is legendary!
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SwissJetPilot said:
Oh the French have fought back
->snip You won't see it as much in Germany, but vandalism to speed cameras in France and Italy is legendary!
Vive la résistance!
 

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This is just stupid. I don't even see how this passes muster under freedom of speech laws--you being free as a person to tell/report to others where things are out in public be it where buried treasure is located, or where the new Costco is, or where police and/or speed cameras are setup. Whether you tell one person or 1 million, doesn't matter it's all the same. But perhaps the laws and rights to freedom in Germany, France, etc. are not quite the same as they are in say US or Canada (where these rights are constitutional and generally well-protected by the courts). If the state wants something to be secret, it has to actually be secret. They can't put something out in public, clearly visible, and then tell people they can't talk about it or be subject to fines if they do because they simply said it's a secret :rolleyes:

I mean if they are that crazy about it, they might as well just mandate that new vehicles have a factory GPS system that determines the road and the speed limit and won't let the vehicle go over it :rolleyes: But don't tell me...that's coming soon too?
 
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I mean if they are that crazy about it, they might as well just mandate that new vehicles have a factory GPS system that determines the road and the speed limit and won't let the vehicle go over it :rolleyes: But don't tell me...that's coming soon too?
Hey - that’s as good as built in to my other car. It gets limits from gps/maps when it can, but also reads roadside speed signs using the windscreen cameras and optical-character-recognition - just need to activate it via the cruise-control/speed-limiter…
 
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Hey - that’s as good as built in to my other car. It gets limits from gps/maps when it can, but also reads roadside speed signs using the windscreen cameras and optical-character-recognition - just need to activate it via the cruise-control/speed-limiter…
Yeah the technology is totally there but the government(s) of various places mandating the speed limiter in the car follow it, is another story.

That would likely create chaos on roads though as newer vehicles would not be able to exceed while older ones would have no issues...
 

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TT'sRevenge said:
That would likely create chaos on roads though as newer vehicles would not be able to exceed while older ones would have no issues...
not even a Rush fan but...

"Red Barchetta"
My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
I fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime
 
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[Redacted].

Ok then what I can legally say is we at least need to start with motorist unions and such. We're getting fleeced and have been for years which is daft given our numbers and economic value.
 

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Yeah the technology is totally there but the government(s) of various places mandating the speed limiter in the car follow it, is another story.

That would likely create chaos on roads though as newer vehicles would not be able to exceed while older ones would have no issues...
And at the moment can be dangerous and cause accidents. My other car can be controlled by a speed limiter but I won't use it. I get the speed limit shown in the dash, which is generally useful, but the other month I was on a road with a 70mph limit and the car picked up on the 30mph limit from a parallel service road. If I'd have had the speed limiter enabled the car would have suddenly braked from 70 to 30 and I could have been rear ended! A number of other folks have reported similar. Also sometimes no speed limit is shown on the dash at all! Due to a lack of road signs or GPS info. And we all know how out of date or incorrect sat nav data can be.

At the moment there are too many flaws with car technology and actual road signage to provide safe and reliable speed control systems which is one reason why I think it will take much longer for automanous vehicles to be introduced and it will be very "interesting" to see how they and conventional vehicles get on. Can't wait to see an automanous car trying to get onto a mini-roundabout!!
 

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Is it illegal to make the license plate invisible to the camera? 🤔 🤔

In Dubai the overspeeding fine is very ridiculous. The fine increases depending on your speed.

Driving above speed limit
50km/h = €260
20km/h = €78
 

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Is it illegal to make the license plate invisible to the camera? 🤔 🤔

In Dubai the overspeeding fine is very ridiculous. The fine increases depending on your speed.

Driving above speed limit
50km/h = €260
20km/h = €78
In Finland, speeding fines are linked to salary. The Finns run a “day fine” system that is calculated on the basis of an offender’s daily disposable income – generally their daily salary divided by two.
The more a driver is over the speed limit, the greater the number of day fines they will receive.
This has led to headline-grabbing fines when wealthy drivers have been caught driving very fast.
In 2002, Anssi Vanjoki, a former Nokia director, was ordered to pay a fine of 116,000 euros ($103,600) after being caught driving 75km/h in a 50km/h zone on his motorbike.
 
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Oh the French have fought back!

French media reports that there has been a sharp increase in the number of vandalized speed cameras following the Gilets Jaunes (Yellow Jackets) protests across the country. In some areas, the number of damaged cameras is almost 95%, with 21 out of 22 cameras out of operation in the in the Puy-de-Dôme area.

You won't see it as much in Germany, but vandalism to speed cameras in France and Italy is legendary!
View attachment 487746
Les Frogs are always the only ppl with a set of balls when it comes to sticking to the government, if only a fraction in IRE were the same we might not be getting fleeced with road tax etc
 

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Yeah, and I know it would be impossible to organise and implement but it would be great if no-one sped for a period of time and there was no income generated from speeding fines!
 
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