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How do you feel the HPA controller has helped with this Haldex behavior?
 

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Discussion Starter · #602 ·
I think the HPA is the best solution for haldex control but unfortunately the most expensive. Most of the time I leave it in competition which is very similar to the orange controllers, sport is a similar programme to the blue controllers.
They provide more haldex engagement and do it quicker than the stock setting. Also Haldex stays engaged when braking. This I find makes the car more stable under heavy braking.
The dynamic option is great for running 1/4 miles and the like.
 

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Thanks. Appreciate your perspective given your track time. Yes, it is pricey, but when I think of all the other money I've managed to spend on cars over the years, I feel like it may be one of the highest returns for the buck. I've not had a chance to get on the track with my car yet, and I'm only willing to push it so hard on public roads, but my seat of the pants feels like the balance truly changed. With the exception of rolling down the highway on a long road trip, I leave it in competition mode too.

Have you played with fine tuning things like percent of engagement when breaking? I've gone with the defaults, but there are a lot of interesting things to tweak.
 

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They are great, transforms the handling. I leave mine in sport mode, more rear drive in general and backs it off cruising on motorway, actually get better MPG than stock mode on motorway.
 

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desertstorm said:
..........


It's Avon Rise into Quarry at Castle Combe which is probably one of the most crashed at corners on any UK track.,..........
I'm going to laugh, as I love Raine Wilson and the youtube clip was designed that way. I'm in a glass cage of emotion...

What a nightmare though....
 

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desertstorm said:
I think the HPA is the best solution for haldex control but unfortunately the most expensive. Most of the time I leave it in competition which is very similar to the orange controllers, sport is a similar programme to the blue controllers.
They provide more haldex engagement and do it quicker than the stock setting. Also Haldex stays engaged when braking. This I find makes the car more stable under heavy braking.
The dynamic option is great for running 1/4 miles and the like.
Have you thought about adding Quaife LSD diffs? Apparently putting a front one makes more of a difference than the rear, obviously putting both is optimal but ££££ :roll:

I remember a thread about someone from USA having great success with it, and apparently they are plug and play.

Some sort of haldex upgrade is obviously a prerequisite but you have that already.
 

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Well the DSG gearbox has been in for a few weeks now. Been playing with the mapping on the ECU to improve the changes . The stock mapping on the Ignitron ECU was pretty good. Car was very driveable and I was surprised how good it was.
Bit of a faff changing it out and had to think a bit about how to swap the box with the engine on a crane as the DSG gearbox weighs 100Kg as compared to the stock 02m around 70Kg.
I weighed all the parts of the old gearbox and new one to try and get an idea of how much extra weight this would add.
02M with oil and including gearbox side mount 69Kg no flywheel or clutch
02m clutch pedal and piping 1.5kg
02E DSG gearbox including mount 99.8Kg no flywheel or clutch
DSG flywheel 11.5 Kg
02M flywheel 11.6Kg 02m clutch and pressure plate 4.8Kg
02m gear change selector 3.8Kg
DSG gear selector 2.1 Kg
02M total = 69 + 11.6 + 4.8 + 3.8 + 1.5 = 90.7
DSG = 99.8 + 11.5 + 2.1 = 113.4 22.7 Kg Heavier

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The 02E gearbox is a heavy lump and i found the easiest way of getting the gearbox on the engine was to hang the engine on the crane straight and level and then slide the gearbox on a trolley onto the end of the engine.

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Don't forget to install a spigot bearing. I used the 2.0 TFSI item , put in the freezer for a few hours. clean any surface rust or dirt from the bore on the crank and lubricate a little. Spigot tapped in easily with the flat end of a socket.

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Some of the bolts used to secure the gearbox to the engine are the same as the O2M although a lot are much shorter especially the starter motor mounting bolts. Fortunately the gearbox had not been removed from the car when I bought it so I asked the breaker to keep all the bolts.
Mounting the gearchange I decided to fit the new one on top of the tunnel as it puts the gear change closer to the wheel but also means if it required changing out I wouldn't have to remove the exhaust and prop again. The cable used to activate the park mechanism also goes through the hole where the AC condensate drain was. I no longer have AC. This appears in the engine compartment at just the right place.

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The mounting bracket for the transfer box to engine block fitted perfectly with no modification. One of the bolt holes is a smaller thread dimension than on a 2.0 TFSI .
When swinging the engine in to the bay I noticed that there was very little clearance between the mechatronic and the point that the engine front cross brace mounts. Took an angle grinder to that and removed a piece as well as a piece of the cross brace. Now mounts with 2 bolts instead of 3.

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The existing driveshafts fit as they are but only because I have MK2 TTS ball joints on the car to increase camber and this increase the track of the car. The drivers side driveshaft has about 8-10mm articulation left with the driveshaft parallel to the ground, which is the minimum length. I will look into getting the TTS drivers side shaft shortened and fitted. However my shfts have nut fixings at the moment and the newer shafts are bolt fixings on the bub so I think this will require a new hub.

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I also moved the entire engine / gearbox towards the passenger side to maximise the potential movement for the driveshaft.This also helps with what appears to be a slightly different positioning of the rear transfer box output shaft.
Some parts numbers of items used.
Spigot bearing middle of flywheel Sachs 1863 869 047
Gearbox selector 3AC713025D off a 21010- 2014 Passat CC
clockspring 1J0959654M
Steering wheel 2011 Ibiza Cupra TSI DSG 6J0419091R
The gearbox transfer case to engine bracket I have 02M409905AH

The power steering pipes have all been changed out using the high pressure hose I had made up and the V6 low pressure return with the Jaguar PAS cooler cut down and fitted between the FMIC and radiator.

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The gearbox in it's new home.

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Taking a bit to get used to the new setup. The gearbox is on stock mapping so torque is limited to 380Nm although it will handle more than that as seen by all the cars driving around with stage 1, 2 maps on and stock gearbox maps.
I am running it a 1.4 Bar max boost so around 420Nm and still have the 6800 rpm stock gear change points. When the gearbox is remapped I will be able to run full 2 - 2.2 bar boost with 7800 RPM change points.
Stock mapping in Drive the gearbox does it's best to get you into 6th as quick as possible. Usually by 30-35mph you are in 6th. In Sport it's a completely different story it wants to keep you around 4K rpm and a slight prod of the accelerator has it changing down. Manual steering wheel paddles work in any mode to change gears .

A quick video I did the other day and a copy of some of the log from Ignitron which just covers the period in the video. You can see the car gets from 30 to 95mph in around 6.3s , I can't fathom how much quicker it will be when the gearbox is mapped.


log capture for acceleration in manual.JPG
 

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Don't think I put in any details of the V6 power steering mods. On the 225 it's ridiculously complicated compared to a V6 with the pipe routing and cooler pipes which are prone to rusting and are heavy. The OE high pressure pipe will not fit with the DSG as all the turns in front of the gearbox is where the Mechatronic is on the DSG. So got a high pressure pipe made up at a local hydraulic place. And bought the low pressure side stuff from Ebay. The PAS fluid bottle is the same and mounts the same.
Just the pipe routing is very much different. The V6 having a lot less piping and is a lot simpler.

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The replacement hose, It was around £25 so not silly expensive.

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All the parts, The cooler is off Ebay, I think they are slightly damaged new stock coolers of S type jaguars. Nice and light and a good size with alloy brackets that are easily cut. Pipe size is the same as the OE TT items .

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Neat conversion. Looking forward to hearing your driving impressions after tuning and some track time.
 

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Done some tweaking with the gearbox mapping and got the speedo sorted . In this video running 1.4 bar boost as this is on the limit of what the stock gearbox mapping will handle.Most of the time I run it at 1.2 bar boost and there it's still very nippy.


Looking to get a stage 3 TVS gearbox map, Not the cheapest but probably the best you can get. Should hopefully be able to run upto 600Nm and 7800 RPM when the box is mapped.

With the existing TT driveshaft only having about 5mm of movement it was working but I suspect that long term this would have been an issue and I was only getting that 5mm because I had mk2 TT bottom ball joints.
The inner joints on the 3.2V6 TT DSG box are tripodic so won't fit the CV type flanges on the TTS box. Found that on the MK5 Golf R32 DSG the later cars changed from Tripodic to CV type driveshafts. These are 15mm shorter than my TT driveshaft at 600mm rather than 615mm.
Result, bit more searching and found several part numbers all identical components used on different cars.
1K0407272CR 3C0407272BD 1K0407452TX 5Q0407272EQ 1K0407272JF 1K0407454MX 5Q0407272K
After a quick search on Ebay found a 5Q0407272K from a 2017 A3 2.0 TDI for the princely sum of £38 delivered. Just 3 years old so not a lot of use. I have nut type driveshafts on my TT so bought a second hand steering knuckle complete with the bolt fixing hub from a breaker for £25. Bearing turned out to be good which was a bonus, so painted up and was fitted the weekend. Now have 20mm play on the shaft which puts it right in middle of where it needs to be. There is roughly 40mm of movement on the inboard CV joint.

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Also fitted a large centre silencer to reduce the exhaust noise a little. Trying to get it track friendly for all tracks across the country. It's also nicer to drive on a long trip.

Measured up a centre silencer and decided on a round 4.5 inch silencer 20 inches long. Pretty much as big as I could easily fit in the existing space in the middle. Didn't want to reduce the ground clearance by going to a 5 inch silencer.
Found just the perfect silencer on Fleabay, 304 stainless made in the UK. Looks good quality and only cost £60.
Weighs 3.8Kg, the length of exhaust I cut out was 1.8Kg so a net 2Kg gain. Did some before and after videos with a SPL meter.
measured levels at 1m 45 degrees to exhaust at idle, 3K and 5K.
Before After
Idle 79 77
3K RPM 85 80
5K RPM 91 87
Definitely quieter in the car with no loss of performance.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112551660874

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Discussion Starter · #615 ·
The exhaust would be a lot louder on boost but the noise resuction would be of a similar level. I cannot run the same amount of boost on this gearbox until it's remapped. The DSG box has clutches that are clamped by hydraulic pressure. On a stock box map this is around 12bar and means the clutches will handle around 430nm . When the box is remapped the maximum clamp pressure increase to around 18 bar so the box should then handle around 600Nm.
 

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Oh that's interesting, so this is laterally 'torque limited' so for example Revo do a DSG map, can you not get the toolkit for that, or is it pointless learning that for a once only adjustment? Do you need to change any pipework too? What happens if you exceed the limit does it disengage?

Incidentally, has anyone else been this advanced? I know people have Turbo'd a 3.2 DSG but has anyone fitted a DSG to a big turbo 1.8t?
 

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Discussion Starter · #617 ·
I could buy a cheap flash cable from Aliexpress to be able to read and write DSG maps. A few people have offered to alter the torque limits and RPM limits on my map but there is a lot more to mapping the gearbox to get the most out of it than altering a few maps.
TVS have been repairing, modifying and mapping the DSG gearboxes for many years and have the best maps. To get the performance from the gearbox they not only adjust the maps but have rewritten parts of the code to remove limiters and allow higher clamping pressure/ features.Some of the fastest DSG cars in the world use TVS maps.
https://tvsengineering.com/en/dsg-gearbox/dq250/
The ECU puts out an engine torque figure on the CAN bus. The TCU can request torque reductions from the engine during upshifts and if the ECU is putting out more torque than the gearbox likes the gearbox will request a torque reduction.
The gearbox I am using has a 380Nm max torque so there is a setting in the ECU that limits the CAN torque reading to 380Nm.
This is essentially what tuners do when they map DSG cars and don't map the box. The ECU basically tells the truth upto the torque limit of the box then undeclares the torque value. This is OK to do upto around 430-440Nm but above that you will be getting clutch slip.
This is why mapped DSG cars sometimes struggle on track with gearbox issues the DSG clutches are oil cooled and without enough clamping pressure on the clutches you get slip especially when changing gear and this heats up the gearbox oil a lot.
There are quite a few high power 1.8T DSG cars around at the moment. Some running better than others.
 

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desertstorm said:
Hi all, various searches concluded that this was the best TT forum to join for information advice etc.
Used my daily runner a few times on track but decided better to get a dedicated track car and it had to be something VAG.
The MK1 225 TT offers a lot of car for not so much money really. Problem is trying to find one thats not had a million owners and been to the moon and back.
After looking for a few weeks came across this Y plate example with 88K on the clock and 5 previous owners. Full service history and a recent cam belt/ water pump change.Its totally standard in pretty much every way, I cannot find any mods or tweaks, still has the original diverter valve and stock air box etc. Even has the original untouched first aid kit.

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Fixed some of the issues that the car had, micro switches in the door locks both sides, dismantled the G200 sensor and resoldered the chip, replaced the rear brake discs and pads and the one caliper as the piston was seized.

Plans are for a full strip, if it doesn't need to be there to make the car run/stop it will be going.
Brembo LCR calipers with 330mm discs, ds300 pads. Half cage , bucket seats , probably Gaz Gold suspension with the various suspension tweaks / bushes etc needed. Haldex insert.
Welly cooler and a tip with a divertor valve and a remap by Rick at Unicorn Motor developments.
plus loads of other stuff I am sure.
Want to get the car up and running and trackable with suspension , brake , interior mods and mild tweaks to the engine.
Longer term looking to replace the turbo and fit rods etc in the engine as well as oil cooler / exhaust etc for something a bit more serious.

Hopefully I can get it as quick as my daily driver diesel estate :).
Just reread your first post, you've certainly come a long way, always reading on your progress with interest. :)
 

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Decided to have a play with the launch control on the gearbox. Seems that it needs the ESP to work for the launch control to be enabled. I had coded out the ESP on the ABS module as on track even with it turned off it still intervenes occasionally.
Coded the ESP back in and to get the car to launch you just turn the ESP off, make sure the gearbox is in sport or tiptronic mode and brake with the left foot,right foot flat on the accelerator and then take your foot off the brake.
The launch RPM is set in the ECU so I can configure whatever I want, this was a not too aggressive 4K rpm.
ECU is running only 1.2 bar of boost as gearbox still on the stock map, so only around 330bhp.
Quite surprised how quick it was, pretty much the same as the 500bhp manual launch I tried before I put the DSG box in. A whole lot less stress on the transmission. Be interesting to see what it does after Tuesday next week when the TVS stage 3 map goes on the gearbox.


This is some of the log from the run above.Gear changes at 6800 which is the max RPM, on the stock tune. Will be changing faster and at 75-7600 next week with much higher boost so I expect very low 3s times.

8th mile log.JPG
 

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Can i ask how you coded out the ESP? I have tried on mine but it won't take the new code.
What version module do you have? Mines an ESP ALLRAD MK60 0101 and what code did you use?
 
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