Just ditch the catch can. Why risk blowing another turbo? Engine oil is hygroscopic, it absorbs moisture from air. Without heating the oil it will just keep absobing moisture that can freeze.
Spring Tune up 2022
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2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
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231 Posts
The initial problem is with the $700CAD CTS mistake. I was stupid and believed the hype and slowly learned first hand the draw backs. The other $200 I spent on upgrading the small CTS can to a highflow RacingLine can and another $100 to add the drain valve were consequences of that mistake. Let's not even add the ECS tuning kit into this mix.
With well over a $1000 invested in the "catch can" upgrade I'm NOT going to simply ditch it. People can read this and other relevant threads and learn from my experiences.
The second and probably most important thing is that the CTS and all other billet aluminum PCV delete plates have poor design. The OEM PCV system is over engineered but it serves as an oil air separator which doesn't exactly "catch" all of the oil vapors before making its way into the turbo/IM.
The concept of the watery and oily vapor making its way to the IM to be burnt off isn't a bad idea, the consequences of having it build up on the valves is bad though. There's ways to deal with this whether it's walnut blasting, water methanol injection into the IM and or additional fuel injection over the valves.
Once the turbo starts sucking in the fumes from the PCV system its very likely that a car with a stage 2-3 setup will not allow the air oil separator to completely seperate the oil blow by due to the increased boost/vacuum created. Therefore a modified beyond stock motor should run a catch can to catch the potential oil and water before it makes its way through the turbo's compresor housing.
My take away:
Stock to stage 1 doesn't need a catch can setup, the OEM system is sufficient.
Stage 2, 2+, 3 etc, should run a catch can.
A PCV system requires maintenance, like brakes, tires etc, it should not be thought of as a replace and forget type of item.
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754 Posts
Just going to say, you should look up the term "sunk cost fallacy" before being so sure of continuing down the same path using this reasoning. As I said before you're free to do what you want with your own car but just saying it's actually quite beneficial to understand the sunken cost fallacy, not just for this but for many other things.
I've had a K04 on my one car for about half it's life now (so nearly 5 years with it on and 50k+ kms). Never put a catch can on the car--never wanted to and never will. Many others have run upgraded stages and turbos, without ever doing any catch can just the same. I've even been lucky enough knocks on wood that my original PCV has never given me a problem despite being a common-failing part. I'm not sure how/why you're concluding that one "should" run a catch can at certain stages, but it is 100% not necessary IME; but again you're free to "take away" and mod/equip your car as you see fit as said.
The other thing I worry about is that you haven't really diagnosed what's truly wrong with the car yet--is the turbo really an issue or is it fine, was the catch can responsible for the smoke out the back, is there some other problem, and what of the electrical issues with the cluster? Buying all these upgrade parts is all fine and dandy but what if you find out the engine needs to be rebuilt because of bad pistons/rings (which is a known problem on VL engines)? I was under the impression you wanted to keep this lower cost but seems like you've spent like $10k plus here just like that and still have to pay the labour for most of this stuff to go in (?), and still don't really know what issues the car had to start this all? Don't get me wrong, I spent my fair share of $$$ on my cars to be sure (and lots of people on here have spent many times more than me), but I am just a bit confused and I'm sure I can't be the only one of those that have followed along. This has turned from "I need to fix my car as it is smoking, could be a head gasket issue and wife is mad I'm spending so much on car" to "tune up" to "build thread, buying lots of parts!" over the course of a month or so.
Anyway, best of luck with everything. I see you have bought parts at SEM--they are good guys, bought stuff there too including my K04 & DP. I never had them do any work of course, but looks like they are quite competent a shop. If they are also doing the work on your car I think you're in good hands there. (I did also think you were not in the GTA but those are clearly pics of SEM in North York...) I can tell you that, presuming the car will be running fine, you will certainly love the K04 once you get it on there. With that and the tune, the engine performance is like night/day over stock. The VL engine doesn't make quite the peak #s as the non-VL for various reasons, but it makes some ton of torque down low--very early in the rev range with a lot of "area under the curve". That along with all the other stuff you have lined up there should have you quite happy once it's all in/good
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
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231 Posts
It's 0451am here in Halifax NS. I've been tossing and turning in bed with lots on my mind. I can empathize with your point of view. As you have pointed out, my view is biased for many reasons.Just going to say, you should look up the term "sunk cost fallacy" before being so sure of continuing down the same path using this reasoning. As I said before you're free to do what you want with your own car but just saying it's actually quite beneficial to understand the sunken cost fallacy, not just for this but for many other things.
I've had a K04 on my one car for about half it's life now (so nearly 5 years with it on and 50k+ kms). Never put a catch can on the car--never wanted to and never will. Many others have run upgraded stages and turbos, without ever doing any catch can just the same. I've even been lucky enough knocks on wood that my original PCV has never given me a problem despite being a common-failing part. I'm not sure how/why you're concluding that one "should" run a catch can at certain stages, but it is 100% not necessary IME; but again you're free to "take away" and mod/equip your car as you see fit as said.
The other thing I worry about is that you haven't really diagnosed what's truly wrong with the car yet--is the turbo really an issue or is it fine, was the catch can responsible for the smoke out the back, is there some other problem, and what of the electrical issues with the cluster? Buying all these upgrade parts is all fine and dandy but what if you find out the engine needs to be rebuilt because of bad pistons/rings (which is a known problem on VL engines)? I was under the impression you wanted to keep this lower cost but seems like you've spent like $10k plus here just like that and still have to pay the labour for most of this stuff to go in (?), and still don't really know what issues the car had to start this all? Don't get me wrong, I spent my fair share of $$$ on my cars to be sure (and lots of people on here have spent many times more than me), but I am just a bit confused and I'm sure I can't be the only one of those that have followed along. This has turned from "I need to fix my car as it is smoking, could be a head gasket issue and wife is mad I'm spending so much on car" to "tune up" to "build thread, buying lots of parts!" over the course of a month or so.
Anyway, best of luck with everything. I see you have bought parts at SEM--they are good guys, bought stuff there too including my K04 & DP. I never had them do any work of course, but looks like they are quite competent a shop. If they are also doing the work on your car I think you're in good hands there. (I did also think you were not in the GTA but those are clearly pics of SEM in North York...) I can tell you that, presuming the car will be running fine, you will certainly love the K04 once you get it on there. With that and the tune, the engine performance is like night/day over stock. The VL engine doesn't make quite the peak #s as the non-VL for various reasons, but it makes some ton of torque down low--very early in the rev range with a lot of "area under the curve". That along with all the other stuff you have lined up there should have you quite happy once it's all in/good
As an Audi Club N.A. - E.C. member, I get a decent discount on parts from our sponsors and partners. I changed to a new thread because I didn't want to confuse people re the current problems and the parts bin.
As it stands, I need a new alternator and battery, a few new sensor etc. The cause of the smoke is unknown yet. If the car needs a rebuild then there's nothing I can do but run it back better than before. I have the mentality that if the vehicle will be in the shop, I should get as much done as possible while it's there. From a cost perspective, I would end up spending more money on labor costs if I installed the parts individually vs getting things swapped out while the car is already in the shop being worked on.
I'm optimistic, but these upgrades will only improve the performance metrics of my car for the better once it's back on the road, henceforth the spring tune up thread.
I will post the cause of the smoke and the damage in the other thread, I really don't want to mix the two together.
As per my wife being mad at me for spending time & large sums of money on the car......that hasn't changed nor do I think it ever will. I basically said it's better to get it all done in one shot than not, due to saving money on the labor, and future trips to the shop. She agreed and gave me the green light.
If my wife didn't acknowledge my reasoning, there's absolutely no way any parts would be purchased and any work would ever get done.
Lastly, I promised her that this would really be it. Over the last three years I've had the motor rebuilt, various performance upgrades were done.
Now, all I am doing is addressing the "clunk" in mount play, swapping out the tired OEM turbo for the K04, replacing the heavy and old catback exhaust system for a newer, lighter and less restrictive unit. I don't really foresee myself doing any more work on the car aside from getting it back on the road in great shape.
I completely understand that everyone has their own philosophy and inherited biases when it comes to the point of modification, what's acceptable for me may be ridiculous for another. But as long as individuals understand that tuning is a personal choice, and not an obligation then we should be ok.
SEM will not be doing the work on my car this time around as I am not living in that province anymore.
I'll be make some videos of the shop doing the work.
P.s I fell asleep while writing this in the morning and finished the post 6 hours later, hopefully it's not too long of a reply.
As a minimum, I would inspect / clean / replace your turbo oil return line before you bolt on your new K04.delmar.atlas said:
Cut from Oil Consumption - Blocked Turbo Return Line.
“If the oil return line from the turbocharger is blocked it raises the oil pressure in the turbo charger which then escapes past the oil seals at either end. The oil then enters the intake tract where it is sucked into the combustion chamber or it is blown out the turbine side into the exhaust”.
This 'might' account for the smoke, and if it turns out to be the cause you will destroy your new turbo in short order if not addressed.
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
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231 Posts
You can absolutely bet on me requesting the lines be looked at and cleaned before replacing the turbo. I'm wondering whether I should swap out the spark plugs and coils......at this point I'm just anxiously awaiting the final parts to come in and have the car checked, but in the meantime I have this compulsive want to buy more "necessary" things.
Anyway, we will see what the techs have to say.
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
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231 Posts
It's safe to assume that I clearly have GAS problems.In the guitar world this is known as having a bad case of 'GAS'.
(gear acquisition syndrome) There's always another guitar you absolutely need
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
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231 Posts
Update.
The shop will not let me video record anything, therefore I won't be able to share any before, during and after pictures.
I apologies in advance but will have all the parts laid out so you have an idea of what's going in and why.
Best
The shop will not let me video record anything, therefore I won't be able to share any before, during and after pictures.
I apologies in advance but will have all the parts laid out so you have an idea of what's going in and why.
Best
Check the turbo's compressor wheel for any sign of damage. If there is a damage you need to replace the intercooler.
Make sure to prine the turbo before starting the engine. Unplug the injectors, spark plug and ignition coils then use the starter to turn the engine to buildup oil pressure.
Make sure to prine the turbo before starting the engine. Unplug the injectors, spark plug and ignition coils then use the starter to turn the engine to buildup oil pressure.
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
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231 Posts
Hello friends,
The car get's picked up on Wednesday, put on a flat bed and towed to Kraftwerks here in Halifax NS.
The shop has a decent reputation, and I'm looking forward, like many others to get some closure. I will install the PCV-oil/air separator/Africa plate on this Sunday. By doing this I will be temporarily omitting the catch can setup.
The HPA K04 transverse hybrid turbo has yet to be delivered. I've been told that they are still waiting on some of the parts to put the turbos together and ship out.
Because the Racingline can is using the motor mount as a mounting position it will need to be removed anyways in order to replace the motor mount. By pre-emptively removing/replacing these items I can save the shop some time and myself some money.
Once the K04 turbo is in, I will affix the AN fitting flange to the turbo in order to reinstall the Racingline catch can.
My Mototec cat back exhaust system will be delivered by end of month along with my new rear taillight. Stand by for pictures.
My biggest concerns are all of the error codes and the sensors that need replacing.
The turbo will be inspected and the intercooler will most likely be replaced with an aluminum version due to the possibility of the OEM intercooler being fouled, in the meantime I imagine that the intercooler could use a good interior wash and rinse. I'm on standby to standby by.
I believe the car is suffering from an electrical gremlin and that once that is solved all other problems will be fixed.
Fingers crossed, I'll inform everyone of the results later on this week.
Thank you all who have tuned into my thread and have weathered the storm with me during these hard few months.
One of the goals of this "spring tune up 2022" thread was to demonstrate the improvement of the new mounts and inserts. However it's turned into somewhat of a build thread.
The end goal is near and I hope my experiences can serve the community in a positive way.
The car get's picked up on Wednesday, put on a flat bed and towed to Kraftwerks here in Halifax NS.
The shop has a decent reputation, and I'm looking forward, like many others to get some closure. I will install the PCV-oil/air separator/Africa plate on this Sunday. By doing this I will be temporarily omitting the catch can setup.
The HPA K04 transverse hybrid turbo has yet to be delivered. I've been told that they are still waiting on some of the parts to put the turbos together and ship out.
Because the Racingline can is using the motor mount as a mounting position it will need to be removed anyways in order to replace the motor mount. By pre-emptively removing/replacing these items I can save the shop some time and myself some money.
Once the K04 turbo is in, I will affix the AN fitting flange to the turbo in order to reinstall the Racingline catch can.
My Mototec cat back exhaust system will be delivered by end of month along with my new rear taillight. Stand by for pictures.
My biggest concerns are all of the error codes and the sensors that need replacing.
The turbo will be inspected and the intercooler will most likely be replaced with an aluminum version due to the possibility of the OEM intercooler being fouled, in the meantime I imagine that the intercooler could use a good interior wash and rinse. I'm on standby to standby by.
I believe the car is suffering from an electrical gremlin and that once that is solved all other problems will be fixed.
Fingers crossed, I'll inform everyone of the results later on this week.
Thank you all who have tuned into my thread and have weathered the storm with me during these hard few months.
One of the goals of this "spring tune up 2022" thread was to demonstrate the improvement of the new mounts and inserts. However it's turned into somewhat of a build thread.
The end goal is near and I hope my experiences can serve the community in a positive way.
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
Joined
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231 Posts
atlasdelmar on TikTok
Replaced #PCV on a #ea888 #audi #tfsi vacuum present with whistle when dipstick removed, indicating a good PCV. If you remove the dipstick and the car doesn't stumble then you have a vacuum leak and a bad PCV system. A little white smoke on a cold start is common, a lot of white smoke is bad and...
www.tiktok.com
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
Joined
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231 Posts
Update,
The turbo has yet to arrive, the cat back is delayed until EOM, the rear tail lights will be tinted smoke black while the car is parked. Some odd bits will be put on the car while it's being worked on.
A new ECM was purchased to replace the water damaged unit from my car. The gromit that was supposed to be there to deal with the condensation was missing, ergo water ingress causing major issues.
Cheers.
The turbo has yet to arrive, the cat back is delayed until EOM, the rear tail lights will be tinted smoke black while the car is parked. Some odd bits will be put on the car while it's being worked on.
A new ECM was purchased to replace the water damaged unit from my car. The gromit that was supposed to be there to deal with the condensation was missing, ergo water ingress causing major issues.
Cheers.
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
Joined
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231 Posts
Update,
The ECM should be delivered next week. The HPA K04 transverse Turbo has been shipped out and will be available for pickup next week.
Nothing has been done to the car at the shop since the I've been busy at work, and the shop has probably been busy with other customers so they haven't gotten back to me with some pricing. It's all very frustrating at times, but what am I to do?
Once the turbo is in hand I will take some in depth pictures to show the community what makes this unit different from all others and why I ultimately chose HPA's technology and approach compared to other vendors.
The ECM should be delivered next week. The HPA K04 transverse Turbo has been shipped out and will be available for pickup next week.
Nothing has been done to the car at the shop since the I've been busy at work, and the shop has probably been busy with other customers so they haven't gotten back to me with some pricing. It's all very frustrating at times, but what am I to do?
Once the turbo is in hand I will take some in depth pictures to show the community what makes this unit different from all others and why I ultimately chose HPA's technology and approach compared to other vendors.
2012 TT Quattro S-line, WMI-HPA K04 Stage 2+, with OEM+ hardware
Joined
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231 Posts
Update,
Tune: Stage2 to Stage3 Upgrade w/Flapper Delete
K04 Hybrid Turbo Conversion for 2.0L TSI - with integrated diverter valve for Transverse EA888.2 motor.
This turbo is a redesigned/upgraded version of the high out put K04 that came on the RS3 amongst other high performance Audi models.
The impeller is made from a solid billet aluminum block. The turbo has been designed to give the best drivability possible with loads of power through ought the power curve not just peak output. The flapper delete will allow me to run the stock I/M with the blanks giving me the best of low end torque and high rpm flow.
Pictures to come.
Tune: Stage2 to Stage3 Upgrade w/Flapper Delete
K04 Hybrid Turbo Conversion for 2.0L TSI - with integrated diverter valve for Transverse EA888.2 motor.
This turbo is a redesigned/upgraded version of the high out put K04 that came on the RS3 amongst other high performance Audi models.
The impeller is made from a solid billet aluminum block. The turbo has been designed to give the best drivability possible with loads of power through ought the power curve not just peak output. The flapper delete will allow me to run the stock I/M with the blanks giving me the best of low end torque and high rpm flow.
Pictures to come.
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754 Posts
Good to hear it's coming along!
Also you mean S3 (which we never got in Can/US). RS3 is completely different engine shared with the TT-RS (5cyl EA855 which has a variant of BW B03 turbo, stock).
Mk2 TT-S and Mk6 Golf .:R also use a K04 from factory. The HPA version has a slightly different compressor wheel/blade design than the standard BW K04 and yes it's a billet wheel and quite nice.
I noticed you went to a standard PCV, which is good, but just a quick question...did your original PCV have the white top? Just checking because VL engines could have either, depending on year. You cannot switch to the white top (from the older black top) unless you also have the software update for it. Otherwise you may risk blowing out your RMS.
As for the flapper delete "giving the best of low-end torque and high RPM flow" it actually does only one of those things. One of the main reasons the "flapper" exists in the first place is to increase low-end output...that and facilitating different DI operating modes. When you delete the flaps or use an aftermarket manifold without them, you are mainly optimising it for high-RPM power and foregoing the ability to enhance low-end output. If the case were that removing the flaps somehow helped both low-end output and high RPM performance, there would be no purpose of having them to begin with lol. Yet nearly every modern engine has some sort of variable intake from the factory.
For more information on how/why variable resonance/length intakes are used, see:
and also
You will lose low-end from deleting the flaps though how much and how noticeable that might be, is another story. (We can note there's a version of the EA888 VL with a non-variable metal intake from the factory, so it's definitely not required.) Of course when you remove them on engines that have it, you do need to have a tune that deletes the functions and the use of DI modes that require them.
One side benefit of deleting the flaps is that you can't have the system fail (which is somewhat common on these engines).
Also you mean S3 (which we never got in Can/US). RS3 is completely different engine shared with the TT-RS (5cyl EA855 which has a variant of BW B03 turbo, stock).
Mk2 TT-S and Mk6 Golf .:R also use a K04 from factory. The HPA version has a slightly different compressor wheel/blade design than the standard BW K04 and yes it's a billet wheel and quite nice.
I noticed you went to a standard PCV, which is good, but just a quick question...did your original PCV have the white top? Just checking because VL engines could have either, depending on year. You cannot switch to the white top (from the older black top) unless you also have the software update for it. Otherwise you may risk blowing out your RMS.
As for the flapper delete "giving the best of low-end torque and high RPM flow" it actually does only one of those things. One of the main reasons the "flapper" exists in the first place is to increase low-end output...that and facilitating different DI operating modes. When you delete the flaps or use an aftermarket manifold without them, you are mainly optimising it for high-RPM power and foregoing the ability to enhance low-end output. If the case were that removing the flaps somehow helped both low-end output and high RPM performance, there would be no purpose of having them to begin with lol. Yet nearly every modern engine has some sort of variable intake from the factory.
For more information on how/why variable resonance/length intakes are used, see:
and also
You will lose low-end from deleting the flaps though how much and how noticeable that might be, is another story. (We can note there's a version of the EA888 VL with a non-variable metal intake from the factory, so it's definitely not required.) Of course when you remove them on engines that have it, you do need to have a tune that deletes the functions and the use of DI modes that require them.
One side benefit of deleting the flaps is that you can't have the system fail (which is somewhat common on these engines).
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