[starski4578]

I have a problem with my rear wheel. I had eibach springs fitted about 6 months ago and they were actually about to close when mine was on the ramp having its 4 wheel alignment so i think the mechanic rushed things this believe it or not was at demon tweeks where they had double booked the ramp. The problem is visualy from behind, the left rear wheel seems to look like its slightly turning to the right, i believ the technical term is toe in? where as the right rear wheel looks dead straight. This has only become more noticable since i fitted spacers so the wheels are fairly flush with the fender. Can this be adjusted or do you think the car has some hidden history? Any advice would be great before i make the 100 mile trip back to demon tweeks.
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[MCPaudiTT]

Toe has some adjustment on the rear. You will be eating tires if it is as noticeable as you say. Did you get readouts from your alignment?

 

[starski4578]

No readout, last time i had lowering springs on my old car they gave me a readout. It is noticable should i be worried is there much room for adjustment or should i not be able to see if its out. Cheers

 

[John-H]

If you lower too much without fitting adustable tie bars you do run out of toe adjustment but the rear wheels tend to end up toeing in too much and with too much negative camber. They should be symetrical however left to right. If you really have an imbalance then you'll have a non zero thrust angle and the car will rear wheel steer to one side all the time, requiring front steering wheel compensation, so the car ends up crabbing. Your steering wheel may or may not look straight with this.

 

[starski4578]

before i left demontweeks the guy said he wasnt hundred % happy and i could see by the steering wheel it wasnt even straight. If i put it straight the car would turn left...i think? cant remember but goes one way or the other. Anyway he said to pop back but as its 100mile journey i told them to make a note until i was back down that way.
Its just now the spacers are on i can actualy see the rear one side toe in. I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to things like that and most people probably wouldnt notice but it is worrying me that it could be to do with something else. It looks like if i could physicaly toe the wheel out about 1cm so the rear of the tyre would turn in, it would be ok. Does that make sense? :?

 

[John-H]

Yes it makes sense although it can be deceiving - you need to get the car on level ground, lit from front or back (not side due to shadows) and with space around so you can stand and look at each side the same way. Even then it's still tricky to tell visually.

But no - you're not being a perfectionist - it needs to be spot on and symetrical otherwise you'll wear your tyres out and handling will suffer. Your ESP can even be thrown out by faults like this. You'd best get it sorted sooner rather than later to save your tyres.

They've got a good set up at Demon Tweeks but like anywhere things can get rushed and errors can occur. At least they've pointed it out to you and offered for it to be done again. Was it Craig you saw? - He's an all round good egg and should sort you out. Remember to get a print out next time (check thrust angle is zero!) and tell them it's not steering straight and about your concerns - they shoud be able to tell if it adjusts symetrically and if anything is bent if it won't - and they should test drive it as a final check for steering straight.

 

[starski4578]

thanks john, i rate demons highly so hopefully they will honour what they said a few months back. I will ask for Craig as well :wink:

 

[John-H]

thanks john, i rate demons highly so hopefully they will honour what they said a few months back. I will ask for Craig as well :wink:

I hope they remembered to make a note of it if it's that long ago. You'll have to book in anyway as the four wheel alignment procedure takes some time - so you could remind them when it was - they do have a record of customer transactions on computer, so hopefully the note is there. They also have a paper chart on the desk to plan out the weeks bookings - hopefully they didn't just write it on that. If that fails you'll be down to memory.

Ask Craig how he's getting on with his VAG-COM - tell him I'll be needing some tyres soon :wink:

 

[starski4578]

thanks john, i rate demons highly so hopefully they will honour what they said a few months back. I will ask for Craig as well :wink:

I hope they remembered to make a note of it if it's that long ago. You'll have to book in anyway as the four wheel alignment procedure takes some time - so you could remind them when it was - they do have a record of customer transactions on computer, so hopefully the note is there. They also have a paper chart on the desk to plan out the weeks bookings - hopefully they didn't just write it on that. If that fails you'll be down to memory.

Ask Craig how he's getting on with his VAG-COM - tell him I'll be needing some tyres soon :wink:

Just got off the phone to them, they had the note on the computer it was the 8th Oct when i was in last. Booked in tomorrow cant fault them excellent customer service. I'll mention the tyres

 

[motorsportmatt1]

im a porsche race team mechanic and ran porsches in the british gt championship. mistakes do happen at garages and sometimes we get a bad press, but your right about being a perfectionest, i am so i cannot understand why all of them cannot be, the steering wheel should point straight and the car should feel balanced after it has been set up, end of and no excuses unless something is bent, i own a tt and found that putting the front to slightly toe out ie 10mins, gets the front to grip and stops it wondering on the motorway but i only use continental contact tyres as they hold the road so well, also the back i try to get it to toe in about 25-30 mins unfortunately i have had to elongate the holes slightly on the left axle mounting beam to get some toe off ( the damper was faulty when i bought the car and i suspect that side has gone down a big pothole)
with this setting the car is not skitty and feels great

 

[John-H]

im a porsche race team mechanic and ran porsches in the british gt championship. mistakes do happen at garages and sometimes we get a bad press, but your right about being a perfectionest, i am so i cannot understand why all of them cannot be, the steering wheel should point straight and the car should feel balanced after it has been set up, end of and no excuses unless something is bent, i own a tt and found that putting the front to slightly toe out ie 10mins, gets the front to grip and stops it wondering on the motorway but i only use continental contact tyres as they hold the road so well, also the back i try to get it to toe in about 25-30 mins unfortunately i have had to elongate the holes slightly on the left axle mounting beam to get some toe off ( the damper was faulty when i bought the car and i suspect that side has gone down a big pothole)
with this setting the car is not skitty and feels great

Interesting. Your settings are outside Audi's limits. The front is normally more or less parallel to +ve toe in by 8 mins per side. You've got it 10 mins -ve toe out. That will tend to give you better turn in with less understeer but I would have thought more skittish especially in the wet. Your rear is stable at 25 mins +ve. Depends if you mean total toe in which case it's at max or if you mean each side in which case it's twice the limit. How do the tyres wear with that setup?

Are you lowered and how's your camber?

 

[starski4578]

Thanks for your input chaps, car is now aligned although it took longer than i imagined as i have only just got back, having left to be there for 11.
I wasnt happy with the first two readouts but third time lucky i guess. The wheel is perfectly centred now and the rear of the car looks symetrical so no more crabbing

JohnH i asked for Craig but he wasnt in today, think it was Ben who was in and he honoured the no charge.
Result thanks

 

[John-H]

Glad you got it sorted - it's nice to have a straight car! Yes it does take some time to do it properly.

I'll probably catch up with Craig when I ring up about some tyres - thanks for asking .

 

[motorsportmatt1]

im a porsche race team mechanic and ran porsches in the british gt championship. mistakes do happen at garages and sometimes we get a bad press, but your right about being a perfectionest, i am so i cannot understand why all of them cannot be, the steering wheel should point straight and the car should feel balanced after it has been set up, end of and no excuses unless something is bent, i own a tt and found that putting the front to slightly toe out ie 10mins, gets the front to grip and stops it wondering on the motorway but i only use continental contact tyres as they hold the road so well, also the back i try to get it to toe in about 25-30 mins unfortunately i have had to elongate the holes slightly on the left axle mounting beam to get some toe off ( the damper was faulty when i bought the car and i suspect that side has gone down a big pothole)
with this setting the car is not skitty and feels great

Interesting. Your settings are outside Audi's limits. The front is normally more or less parallel to +ve toe in by 8 mins per side. You've got it 10 mins -ve toe out. That will tend to give you better turn in with less understeer but I would have thought more skittish especially in the wet. Your rear is stable at 25 mins +ve. Depends if you mean total toe in which case it's at max or if you mean each side in which case it's twice the limit. How do the tyres wear with that setup?

Are you lowered and how's your camber?

 

[motorsportmatt1]

im a porsche race team mechanic and ran porsches in the british gt championship. mistakes do happen at garages and sometimes we get a bad press, but your right about being a perfectionest, i am so i cannot understand why all of them cannot be, the steering wheel should point straight and the car should feel balanced after it has been set up, end of and no excuses unless something is bent, i own a tt and found that putting the front to slightly toe out ie 10mins, gets the front to grip and stops it wondering on the motorway but i only use continental contact tyres as they hold the road so well, also the back i try to get it to toe in about 25-30 mins unfortunately i have had to elongate the holes slightly on the left axle mounting beam to get some toe off ( the damper was faulty when i bought the car and i suspect that side has gone down a big pothole)
with this setting the car is not skitty and feels great

Interesting. Your settings are outside Audi's limits. The front is normally more or less parallel to +ve toe in by 8 mins per side. You've got it 10 mins -ve toe out. That will tend to give you better turn in with less understeer but I would have thought more skittish especially in the wet. Your rear is stable at 25 mins +ve. Depends if you mean total toe in which case it's at max or if you mean each side in which case it's twice the limit. How do the tyres wear with that setup?

Are you lowered and how's your camber?

 

[motorsportmatt1]

the car is std, ive had it on biesbarth alignment tool and the rear toe is just on the limit total toe in on the rear, i tried the car parallel on the front and didnt like it at all, the front lacked commitment and felt horrid.which is why it is now toeing out on the front, but it has now done 86k so combine that with possible worn wishbone bushes etc its not that bad. ive studied the rear camber on other tt's and they do have a lot of camber on the rear, quite similar to some of the porsches ive set up i guess that was to reduce the fact that tt's were crashing a lot. my car is not lowered but i would love a set of replacement bilstines as ive used race and road sets and they really are great dampers, well worth saving for. as for the set up this suits me and the tyre wear is no more than std.( if anyone is selling a set let me know).