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crap............sorry but it is!!! so we mod a TT to 300bhp and it is no longer legible for an MOT? errrrrrrrr Mclaren make a car that goes to 600bhp and it can have an mot np's.

spam mail here in my opinion to get us to view the website
 

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Never trust EU quangos.

A similar attack on Motorcycles has been brewing for some years, basically they proposed all motorcycles over 50cc should have ABS, non-tamper modifications on all bikes primarily focused at emissions, but a back door way of stopping power increases, no after market spares to be sold, only manufacturer approved spares, imaging that effect on parts prices!

The motorcycle fraternity is more organised than the car sector and more militant, so the various lobbying groups swung in action across Europe.

After several years the final proposals are now due for the Commission heads and approval, basically from 2016 ABS will be introduced on all machines over 125cc except for trails and enduro machines, the emissions tampering largely abandoned, except for learner legal requirements, the after market parts proposals abandoned.

The car lobby is nowhere near as well organised, and the danger is that similar proposals will drip through, so although I agree the above thoughts are unlikely, it is a constant issue to be aware of if you are a car enthusiast.

I would suggest that one of the biggest improvements in the UK, in terms of road safety would be to introduce an annual 'MOT' on the condition of our roads, as when accident statistics are published to the public re deaths and injuries, they are never linked to the state of the road surface and road layout, the authourites have access to this info, but its a political time bomb, and we all know just how bad many road surfaces are.
 

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Think how many millions the country would loose out on, sod that BILLIONS.
Tracks would go down hill etc...
Its bollox, anyone who belives this for more then 1 min should have their car removed form them!

:lol:
 

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Why would VOSA be informing garages about legislation that doesn't exist yet? :roll:
 

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Morning all

I think that you might want to give this a bit more credance than you have so far.

The proposed EU Regulation will become legally binding in the UK if it is signed and makes significant changes to the minimum roadworthyness level for motor vehicles. it would come into force 20 days after signature and be applicable a year after coming into force, although there is a 5 year grace period for member states to get thier testing facilities up to scratch.

The Annexes to the regulation set out the mimimum test standards as well as what constitutes a fail.

The key part of the regulation is that the car being tested must meet the tolerances as set by the manufacturers. If enforced this COULD stop all modifications that are not authorised by Audi.

There is a discussion going on over on pistonheads if you are at all interested http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/to ... ed'%20cars?
There are links to the regulation and annex on the page and I would strongly reccomend reading both and making your own mind up.

Personally I can see problems ahead but I don't think it will kill all modifications.. However the DfT have sent out a bunch of consultation questions, one of which is

"The Commission proposes to introduce a definition
for a roadworthiness test that components of the
vehicle must comply with characteristics at the
time of first registration. This may prevent most
modifications to vehicles without further approval of
the vehicle. (this will apply to many components
and to all types of vehicle)"

If you consider this to be a threat to the modifying scene then there is an e petition https://submissions.epetitions.direct.g ... ions/37784
which as a total of 2 signatures on it at the minute.
 

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once again....

MEH [smiley=baby.gif]

[smiley=book2.gif]
 

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It sounds from the documentation that the intention is to introduce a system similar to the TUV approvals in Germany (which makes sense, as these proposals are generally intended to bring all European countries in line with each other). Maybe one of our German members can confirm, but my understanding is that the TUV test is basically a more strict version of the MOT, and in addition, modifications must also be TUV approved. The upshot of this is that aftermarket parts manufacturers would acquire a sort of 'type approval' for each of their products, which can then be fitted to cars without affecting their TUV approval (I think documentation has to be kept to show the part has TUV approval for that car).

Can't say I'm that bothered by it, but I can see why the "what's the cheapest way to lower my car" mob would be worried...
 

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Spandex said:
Can't say I'm that bothered by it, but I can see why the "what's the cheapest way to lower my car" mob would be worried...
:lol: yep pretty much agree there.

My biggest concern is lack of knowledge/understanding rather than the regulation itself. There are lots of very concerned "classic" car owners that have fabricated parts or have had no choice to upgrade as OEM parts cannot be found that are very concerned, along with some of the street legal drag monster owners.

The biggest issue with the regulation is that it is very poorly drafted and not very clear.
 

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prop135 said:
Spandex said:
Can't say I'm that bothered by it, but I can see why the "what's the cheapest way to lower my car" mob would be worried...
:lol: yep pretty much agree there.

My biggest concern is lack of knowledge/understanding rather than the regulation itself. There are lots of very concerned "classic" car owners that have fabricated parts or have had no choice to upgrade as OEM parts cannot be found that are very concerned, along with some of the street legal drag monster owners.

The biggest issue with the regulation is that it is very poorly drafted and not very clear.
I would imagine a lot of the regulation couldn't be applied to older cars anyway, as the data wouldn't be available from the manufacturers... It's more likely that this would be applied from a given date onwards.

As for it being poorly written, isn't it too early to judge that, given that it's only a proposal at the moment?
 

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I totally understand the concerns of some of the members who modify their motors and I wouldn't want to stop anyone doing that.

On the Pro side:

Surely there needs to be some form of control? All new cars have to pass stringent testing prior to being allowed on the roads - it doesnt make sense to me that major changes especially in the BHP department is allowed without regulation. Isn't the BHP originally attributed to the car, in line with the design requirements ? Isn't braking potential etc aligned to the power and performance of the motor at the time of manufacture? So is it right to change the balance of the motors power without making changes in other areas also (such as brakes)? At the moment it would appear not. And at the moment it would appear anyone can do anything they want to as long as they think its ok.

On the con side:

Is this not just another erosion of free will? European country quangos getting togther and mothering everyone to the very brink of pointlessness. Once again it would appear decisions are being made without formal consultation with anyone remotely interested in doing the things they are attempting to stop. So like it or f#ck off.
 

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Indeed, a great deal of effort goes into gaining type approval for a new car to ensure it is safe and roadworthy and it does seem somewhat beside the point if as soon as someone buys that car they can go out and change a bunch of major components. The question has to arise whether there is any way to ensure that car is still safe? This proposal seems like a rather logical way to addres that issue.

However, apart from killing off the modification industry it does give manufacturers the opportunity to exercise a strangle-hold on the spares market. If it becomes necessary for replacement parts for an Audi to be approved by Audi would they not be tempted to approve only their own parts and through that ensure you have to go to them for any repairs?

I would expect that the legislation wouldn't stop all modifications to cars. It seems more likely that any changes of components not approved by the manufacturer would require a new type-approval standard test for the car - something far more involved than an MOT - much akin to what you need to do after putting a kit car together. If such is the case I suspect some of us may have a nasty surprise in store when we find some of the changes we have made have had a rather detrimental effect on the performance and safety of our cars, rather than the opposite. It would certainly sort out the modifications industry and some of the dubious clims that some make for their products.
 

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I would imagine a lot of the regulation couldn't be applied to older cars anyway, as the data wouldn't be available from the manufacturers... It's more likely that this would be applied from a given date onwards.

As for it being poorly written, isn't it too early to judge that, given that it's only a proposal at the moment?
lol, I wish, I have spent the last year working with a piece of EU Legislation that has been around for 6 years or so and is still badly written. It is not intentional; the drafter is usually trying to convey quite technical legal points in a language that is not their first language.

The thing with historic cars is that the UK does not have a legal definition of historic (don't confuse the pre 1973 tax laws, this is completely different)

The EU Regulation states what is deemed to be historic and it basically says over 30 years old and unmodified.

If you meet the regulation then you do not need to pass the new test. If you don't meet it then you do have to pass the test.

The minimum standards of the test is laid down in the annex after that it either follows something akin to TUV in Germany or it relies on UK legislation. How the UK would implement this is yet to be made clear.

a number of people believe that this regulation will be signed off this year. My view based on working with the EU is that that is highly unlikely.
 

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prop135 said:
The key part of the regulation is that the car being tested must meet the tolerances as set by the manufacturers. If enforced this COULD stop all modifications that are not authorised by Audi.
&
prop135 said:
"...a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration."
It depends on how they choose to interpret words like "tolerances" and "characteristics", which certainly don't imply you can't modify anything or use 3rd party parts, just that any changes from these modifications shouldn't be too radical (in particular I guess in terms of decreasing roadworthiness & safety, which is what the MOT is about).

Also given how keen the EU generally is on competition and so on (e.g. the rule to make sure you don't have to be forced to go to a dealer for servicing, even in-warranty), I don't see this being introduced in a manner that now forces you to get all your parts from the manufacturer and kills off 3rd party competition there.
 

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drjam said:
prop135 said:
The key part of the regulation is that the car being tested must meet the tolerances as set by the manufacturers. If enforced this COULD stop all modifications that are not authorised by Audi.
&
prop135 said:
"...a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration."
It depends on how they choose to interpret words like "tolerances" and "characteristics", which certainly don't imply you can't modify anything or use 3rd party parts, just that any changes from these modifications shouldn't be too radical (in particular I guess in terms of decreasing roadworthiness & safety, which is what the MOT is about).

Also given how keen the EU generally is on competition and so on (e.g. the rule to make sure you don't have to be forced to go to a dealer for servicing, even in-warranty), I don't see this being introduced in a manner that now forces you to get all your parts from the manufacturer and kills off 3rd party competition there.
Yep, sorry I should have been clearer. the regulation indicates that it must be the same as when the vehicle went through its type approval.

Now I agree, if you have improved the braking capability of your car then sure that is a good thing. Unfortunately the regulation does not make that clear and the DfT seem to believe that this means no modification from standard at all.
 
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