FAQ - Failing Window regulator

My passenger side just went out. lol replaced passenger 2 times (will be 3) and driver side 1 time in the last 4 years.

WOW! Do you live near the sea or something?

Chicago Illinois up until about 2 weeks ago. While the car is at the shop in Chicago, I moved to Florida near the Gulf of Mexico.

is this possible to replace the rubber next to the window glass? It seems can not prevent the water to get coming down under the rubber. If i wash my car, after winding down and up again, water is all over the glass.

The rubber strip on the top of the door is not meant to be watertight.

The rubber that is next to the glass has a "furry" finish that holds the water and that's why the window comes up wet for a day or so after washing the car.

A replacement from Audi (or anywhere else) would be the same. Apart from that replacing that trim part would require a complete strip of the door, regulator, speakers, glass, the lot.

The Mk3 is the same but worse. I do have an idea though but it's a work in progress atm.

Thankfully I paid for a 2 year used car warranty and have had both sides replaced, so I'm quids in already.

This original post started on 23 Nov 2011 so I have summarized the 61 pages and 7-years of posts for your reading pleasure -

Overview -

The Audi TT MK2 window Regulator problem has been attributed to failed Bowden cables which are incorporated into the window Regulator frames. There are typically two modes of failure:
(1) a broken wire strand becomes entangled in the cable drive wheel or pulleys. (2) the cable snaps completely. In the first case, the window may still operate intermittently, in the second, it may render one or both Drivers useless. Failure of cables in the early Regulators (07's thru 09's) was attributed the use of galvanized steel cables which were not sufficiently corrosion resistant and more susceptible to work hardening. Later models were manufactured with stainless steel cables which are more corrosion resistant and less susceptible to work hardening.

Failure Mode -

One of the most common failures modes for steel wire and cable is mechanical embrittlement due to work hardening. If you take a paperclip and bend it back and forth repeatedly it will eventually break due to work hardening. This is exactly what's happening to the strands of the cable as they repeatedly pass over the pulleys every time the window is opened or closed. Three key factors associated the Regulator cable failure include material selection, corrosion resistance and cycle frequently (how often the window goes up and down). Ultimately these three factors will determine the lifetime of the cable. In the case of replacement cables, not only is material selection important, but the diameter of the wire must match the groove geometry of the pulleys. If the cable diameter is too large it will get pinched, if too small, it will flatten. In both cases, the action of the pulley can contribute to work hardening the wire over its lifetime, resulting reduced service life.

Regulator Operation -

The Regulator is comprised of four primary components:

(1) Bowden cable
(2) Regulator Frames (front and rear) with an upper and lower guide pulleys
(3) Window Driver (front and rear) these secure the window and slide up and down the Regulator Frame by means of the lugs swaged in the cable.
(4) Cable Drive Wheel assembly which is powered by the Window Motor (not shown). The two ends of the cable are secured inside the main drive wheel and arranged into a figure-8 configuration such that it leaves the main cable drive wheel, and passes over two pulleys on the top and bottom of both frames. The Drivers are connected to the cable by the means of a swaged lugs, such that when the cable moves, both front and rear Drivers slide up and down on the frames. When power is applied to the window motor, the main drive wheel rotates, the cable moves the Drivers up or down thus raising or lowering the window.


In the rear Driver, a bolt passes through the outer side, through a hole in the window glass, and when tightened, supports and clamps the window to the Driver. In the front Driver, it only clamps to the edge of the window glass, securing it in place. The wires are secured to each of the Drivers by means of a fixed lug which is permanently swaged to the wire, thus maintaining the relative position of the cable and the Drivers. In both cases, the each Driver can be adjusted up or down to ensure the window seals properly when raised. Adjustments can be made with the door panel in place through two small openings under the bottom edge of the door, and with the window in the fully-down position.

Symptoms of Failure -

Most people reported hearing a grinding, grating, crunching or clunking sounds (like gravel or sand) when the window was raised or lowered. In a few cases, no sound was heard at all, and the cable simply snapped and the window stopped working. The grinding sound is caused when one or more wire strands have broken and begin to bunch up each time the cable moves. Over time, this becomes a tangle which gets louder as the condition of the cable gets worse as the broken strand scrapes against the Regulator frame or when the bunched-up wire moves against the metal door frame inside the Cable Drive Wheel assembly. In some cases, the frayed cable can jam inside the Cable Drive Wheel assembly or jam a pulley such that the Regulator is only partially operational.



There are few cases of the window motor failing. However this is generally uncommon, especially if a grinding nose was noted before the window failed to raise or lower indicating the cable was already beginning to fail. This would also be true in the case of snapped cable since the window motor may no longer have any effect on the Regulator.

In many of the reported failures, after a Regulator in one door failed, the Regulator in the other door failed a short time later. Given effects of corrosion and operational cycles would be relatively consistent for both doors, it's probably worth the time and cost to replace them both at the same time.

Dealership Response -

Rather than issuing a product recall Audi has been dealing with this as on case-by-case issue since it's not a safety issue. However due to the high number of Regulator failures, Audi (UK) will address individual customers when the complaint is raised. Some dealers are offering full replacement at no cost, while others are providing a "loyalty" discount for the repair. Prices for the replacement of the Regulator at Audi dealerships have been reported anywhere between 110-465 GBP (including parts + labor + VAT) so it's up to the customer to negotiate the price and the willingness of the dealership to recognize the defect. In a letter dated May 29, 2012 from Jon Zammett, Head of Audi Public Relations, Audi is aware of the issue and have provided a Freephone number 0800 699888 or to contact customer.services@audi.co.uk for further assistance

Repairs -

Some people have commented that they were able to "repair" a jammed Regulator by applying lubricants or sprays (e.g. white lithium grease or WD-40) however since the failure is a combination of corrosion and mechanical failure of the wire itself, the application of anti-corrosion materials is not going to solve the problem in the long term.

There are only two ways to address a broken Regulator; either replace the entire Regulator assembly, or replace the cable. Replacement Regulators are available from Audi and any number of automotive parts shops. Audi dealerships and independents are unlikely to offer replacing only the cable, however this can still be done as a DIY project since replacement cable kits are available. In either case, the entire door panel must be removed, along with a number of internal panel components, in order to access, remove and replace the Regulator. While relatively easy to do, average DIY repair times varied from 1-3 hours based on the skill and knowledge levels of the person doing the repair. Additionally, no specialized tools are required to perform the replacement.

In most reported cases, only the cable needed to be replaced and not the entire Regulator assembly. However if you do the repairs yourself, check the condition of the regulator frame, as there have been reports of the damaged cables rubbing and wearing against the frames or causing additional damage other components. In some instances, where non-OEM cables were replaced by previous owners, the non-OEM cables were too short, which placed excessive tension on the assembly, deforming the frames or caused unnecessary wear of the pullies. Check the condition of the main drive wheel assembly, the pulleys, and condition of the Drivers. Additionally, when re-installing the window glass, check that the rubber support pads are still on the forward Driver.

OEM Audi Regulators -

The OEM Audi Regulators are manufactured by Brose, out of Slovakia. Product labels include both the Audi logo and the Brose logo in addition to the Audi Part number 8J0 837 461 followed by a letter designator for left or right depending on the model year. There is also a date code across the lower part of the label (e.g. 4.02.2013 09:42:38) followed by a letter. While not confirmed, this letter in the lower right corner of the label is believed to be the revision designator. During the production years of the Mk2 TT, there were some design changes to the Regulator; cables were upgraded to stainless steel and front Driver was modified with a wider support bracket and secondary adjustment plate. This is only from observations of Regulators available online, and not from Brose themselves. While Brose Regulators are still available from Audi and other suppliers, it is advised to avoid any Regulator built prior to 2011 as they could still have the older, galvanized steel cables.

Non-OEM Regulators and Cables -

Reports are mixed for aftermarket non-OEM Regulators. While most are acceptable, some have been noted with various issues from lower quality components, changes in frame size and hardware locations, and minor dimensional changes which can make the Replacement non-OEM Regulator more difficult to install and adjust. Aftermarket stainless steel Cable replacement kits are also available, however they are also reports of minor design changes in hardware, accurate lengths and component quality.


If you only replace the cable, be sure it fits the existing pulleys and drive wheel grooves correctly. The groove diameter of the pulley/drive wheel should be slightly larger than the diameter of the wire. If the wire diameter is too large, it may not fit properly into the groove and wear unevenly or get pinched. If the wire diameter is too small, it can flatten, leading to work hardening and early failure.

Also check that the Driver Lug fits correctly. If the Lug is too short, can move slightly without moving the Driver thus making final up and down adjustments more difficult.

Cables which are too long will end up with a bit of slack that may affect how well the window performs. If the cable is too short, it can put unnecessary stresst on the entire frame and pullies resulting in shorter life.

Ultimately, a badly fitting cable will have a shorter life-span than one that fits properly.


Conclusion -

Without accepting liability outright, Audi has acknowledged early Regulator failures are an issue and will work with customers on a case-by-case basis with the dealership having the last say in the level of service they are willing to offer. In most cases, only the cable needs to be replaced, but it's often easier to just replace the entire regulator as a complete assembly. When buying a used OEM Audi Regulator, avoid any manufactured prior to 2011 and inspect the assembly carefully to ensure all parts are included.

Reference Video Links -

Workshop manual reference for window height & lateral alignment:

Window Raising Adjustment
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1778114

Good video with very clear instructions for what's involved in replacing the entire regulator:

Audi TT 8J Fensterheber Wechseln

Overview of what's involved if you just want to replace the cables:

How to Repair Audi TT MK 2 Electric Window Regulator

How to remove the door card -

Explained Retaining Clips on Audi VW Door Panel Trim




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Fantastic write up SwissJetPilot very helpful

Just had my n/s regulator go, window stuck in the down position with it raining heavily and having no garage or anywhere to put the car under cover I decided to drop it off at my local independent VAG specialist for repair.
At least that way it's in their workshop and not left outside at the mercy of the elements......

Anybody any idea of the current price for the regulator? As I'd like some idea of what sort of figure I'm looking at for the repair.
I've had other work carried out here previously and their labour charges are very reasonable @ £54 per hr, so comfortable with that.
Would just like a rough idea of how much the regulator is likely to cost, it will be genuine oem parts used.

Cheers

Thanks, so I imagine we're looking at £250-£300 inc labour & vat..... [smiley=oops.gif]

This guy is located up in northern UK, seems like he knows what he's doing.

"Recon your old regulator Mobile service we come to you Newcastle, Sunderland and the Durham area."

www.electricwindowrepairs.co.uk

Thanks but other end of the country to me......

Got it done at my local indy Quattro-Tech in St Ives

Regulator £128.20
Labour £59.40 + VAT
Total Cost £225.12

Happy with that

Anyone know if Audi still fix FOC? My 2007 TT window regulator went this morning, I spoke to Audi UK head office and they said down to local stealer. I'm not holding out much hope an 11 year old car will qualify for a free fix, despite a full Audi service history. Anyone had recent experience?

Full Audi history, I'd say you have a good chance of a free replacement.

Morning all!

This has happened to my passenger side. I am still within 3 months of purchase date from a 2nd hand dealership.

They seem to think it's a quick fix which is worrying because I watched the video and it looks fiddly unless you are Audi aware.

Under the consumer rights act they are liable for the repair with a maximum contribution of £250.

Just wondered if I have a leg to stand on taking it direct to an Audi dealership even though I didn't buy it from one? Does Audi's loyalty stretch this far?