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Discussion starter · #21 ·
I think mine was about -2.25 degrees or so with about 12 mm lowering. I put new springs on recently and it looks more like -1.5 degrees and too high. I've got adjustable tire bars on the lower arms so I'll lengthen them a bit which will increase the negative camber and lower the rear at the same time due to where the spring sits on the corner of the trailing arm. I did try -1.5 degrees a while ago but it drove like a fork lift round corners and was too tail happy.
 
;)
Even tho its awhile since a post was on here, this is the index reference thread.

ok going soley by the table provided by John-H all praise etc.

My rear suspension height on coilovers , is at present 330 mm each side approx.

The camber (negative) Ive measured using a piece of thread and a 17mm nut on the end and ol pythagoras. :)

Ive measured a few times with wheels on different surface etc and it comes out approximately between 2 degrees 50' min and 3 degrees 23' max.(with bolt on a string accuracy)

The larger angle readings on the lhs/ps ,say an average of 3 degrees overall discounting the extremes with the lhs a lil over 3 degrees and the rhs a lil under 3 degrees.

This is quite "cambery" in appearance :) and yet going by the table above close enough to what it should be , maybe 3 degress 23' is a lil out.

Wheel alignment toe in etc was done before MOT/NCT.

So sound alrite .. even if it looks a lil squatty?
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
As long as you don't wear the inside edges out or the whole tyre with scrubbing then it's fine. I got 17k miles I remember, with tyre front back rotation to even things up and when they were expired, the inside rear edges were bald but the rest of the tyre was at the wear bar limit anyway so needed replacing :wink:
 
Bit of a thread necro, but this will always be relevant.

Can someone please tell me as I have asked on another thread but nobody replied, if the 'Sports suspension' mentioned on that table is the standard S Line suspension, or something else?

Is the bottom value the standard ride height and therefore standard they are running around 1.5 degrees neg camber?

Cheers.
 
Hi guys!

Could you help me to find out the correct settings for a TT 225 Quattro with a Bilstein PSS10 coilover suspension?
(the suspension height is adjusted at 340mm)

Unfortunately, due to my bad English i guess, i can't understand the values at first post depending the model or type of suspension. :oops:

I would greatly appreciate if someone can reply me the correct settings. :)
 
alexisgt said:
Hi guys!

Could you help me to find out the correct settings for a TT 225 Quattro with a Bilstein PSS10 coilover suspension?
(the suspension height is adjusted at 340mm)

Unfortunately, due to my bad English i guess, i can't understand the values at first post depending the model or type of suspension. :oops:

I would greatly appreciate if someone can reply me the correct settings. :)
Hi, According to the Bentley chart, camber at 340mm suspension height is -2.32
Hoggy. :D
 
Hoggy said:
alexisgt said:
Hi guys!

Could you help me to find out the correct settings for a TT 225 Quattro with a Bilstein PSS10 coilover suspension?
(the suspension height is adjusted at 340mm)

Unfortunately, due to my bad English i guess, i can't understand the values at first post depending the model or type of suspension. :oops:

I would greatly appreciate if someone can reply me the correct settings. :)
Hi, According to the Bentley chart, camber at 340mm suspension height is -2.32
Hoggy. :D
Thanks for your reply.
I meant for the whole settings of first post.

For example, what about:

Front camber................................... -45'+/-30' (i.e. -15' to -1° 15') [-58' +/-30' sport]

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Hi, Suspension height of 340 would be classed as "Sport Suspension" so use the Sport setting.

Front camber................................... [-58' +/-30' sport]
Castor angle (not adjustable) ........ [+8°15' sport]
Rear toe .......................................... ' [+19.5' sport] +/-5' }
Rear Camber -2.32

Other settings in 1st post are suitable for all suspension.
Hoggy. :D
 
John-H said:
Wheel alignment settings for Mk1 TT (quattro + FWD)

View attachment 7

These are the correct settings for a 225 + V6 TT quattro + FWD including sport suspension:

Front Toe at each wheel ................. +4' +/-3.5' (i.e. slight toe in to nearly parall)
Front camber................................... -45'+/-30' (i.e. -15' to -1° 15') [-58' +/-30' sport]
Max camber diff left to right............ 30'
Toe out on turns at 20° steering..... 1° 31' +/-20'
Castor angle (not adjustable) ........ +7° 58' [+8° 15' sport]
Max castor diff left to right ............. 30'

Rear camber .................................... (see table for quattro) {-2° +/-20' FWD}
Max camber diff left to right ............ 20'
Rear toe .......................................... +7.5' +7.5'/-5' (i.e. +2.5' to +15') {+14' [+19.5' sport] +/-5' FWD}


View attachment 6
I have a pre-facelift 2001 mk1 225hp.
I'm going to install the Bilstein B14 PSS shortly.

Thinking to lower to 345 or 350mm.
Should i follow the wheel alignment for vehicles with Standard running gear or with Sport running gear?

thank you
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Hello, sorry I haven't yet replied to your PM with the same question but hopefully by replying here I might help someone else too.

I've got the same B14 kit on mine now. I used to have Koni coil overs - excellent firm handling like a go cart when first fitted. A bit crashy over speed bumps and the like. Kept on collapsing the front strut top rubber mounts - so they were a bit hard and punishing. They lasted about five years until the first spring broke and then it was a broken spring every year or two after that until I got fed up of replacing them.

That's when I fitted the B14 kit. Very different. When I first went for a drive I thought what have I done? It felt too smooth and sloppy - to comfortable - until I started pushing it round bends and then it seemed to firm up and behave quite well - progressive.

Perhaps that's 10 years of technological development for you. It's definitely better. I can plush it when I need to but drive sedately in comfort and pot holes and bumps that used to give a massive bang at the front as the strut top floating design fell out of the recess and slammed the bodywork, no longer occurs. No crashing! Much more civilised. It was the TT Shop's recommendation and good advice with the mounts too!

A couple of points: For my suspension set up I've always gone for as near standard ride height as possible to avoid speed bumps etc. I've never seen the point of slamming the car to the ground - it looks stupid as a practical consideration - roads are not that smooth.

My original ride height pre-facelift was 370 mm hub centre to wheel arch. The highest the Koni kit could be set to (with rear 5 mm plastic spacers) was 355 mm which is about facelift height. That was fine for ground clearance but coil-overs seem to have a short piston travel with a lowering objective. This tends to limit compliance and doesn't help with the crashing problem. I did notice also that the rear adjusters at this maximum height were only engaged by one thread turn!

Now the Bilstein B14: These were fitted with uprated Golf front rubber top mounts as recommended. These sit about 1cm taller so there was no problem achieving 355 mm ride hight and staying within the Bilstein recommended adjustment. With Audi 5 mm plastic spring platform spacers (very cheap) that fit under the lower spring mounts, which I already had fitted to achieve 355 mm with the Koni kit, there was no problem achieving the same height with the B14 with many threads to spare on the adjuster. The only negative comment was that adjusting the adjusters under load gouged off metal from the adjusters because of the spring's sharp edge. A smoother spring or nylon washer would have helped here - but once adjusted they were fine. You are best dropping the suspension and compressing the springs a bit whilst adjusting - or fitting a suitable nylon washer or heatsink over the spring end.

As to suspension settings - to answer your question - just keep to the figures in the tables. You'll notice that the rear tables more or lies match camber and height at one point and only diverge where sports and standard go outside each other's height possibility. It's all in the spring height for these tables. The arm tie bar length, sub frame mount centres and hubs are identical - so the tables are only really useful to check nothing is bent. The design is meant to adjust camber dynamically on compression and with with height due to the geometry.

I've got rear adjustable tie bars which for a standard height are probably not too necessary. I did experiment with different camber settings. I found setting -1.5° caused the car to behave like a fork lift truck on hard cornering - you were far more likely to lose the back end. -2.2° to -2.5° degrees has a far more neutral handling characteristic - although I have got a 16 mm rear anti roll bar which tends to give less understeer.

I hope that helps :)
 
First of all thank you for your reply.
John-H said:
Now the Bilstein B14: These were fitted with uprated Golf front rubber top mounts as recommended. These sit about 1cm taller so there was no problem achieving 355 mm ride hight and staying within the Bilstein recommended adjustment. With Audi 5 mm plastic spring platform spacers (very cheap) that fit under the lower spring mounts, which I already had fitted to achieve 355 mm with the Koni kit, there was no problem achieving the same height with the B14 with many threads to spare on the adjuster. The only negative comment was that adjusting the adjusters under load gouged off metal from the adjusters because of the spring's sharp edge. A smoother spring or nylon washer would have helped here - but once adjusted they were fine. You are best dropping the suspension and compressing the springs a bit whilst adjusting - or fitting a suitable nylon washer or heatsink over the spring end.
do you remember the settings on the suspensions in order to achive the 355mm? photo below show Bilstein recommended adjustments.
Standard wheel size on ours 225 prefacelift was 17". I've fitted 18" (Ronals from v6).
b14 settings.PNG

I agree with you. I don't want to lower the car that much, I'm aiming to 350mm (facelift and QS model, correct me if i'm wrong) or 340mm.. on the latter the last thing i'd want is wheels touch the arch/body on every small bump!
Do you think that on 340mm i would have this problem?

For suspension settings, I'm also referring to the front wheel alignment. there are some differences in camber / caster.

Which adjustable tie arms do you use?

thank you!
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #34 ·
I've got the Forge rear adjustable tie bars in the lower position which allows easy adjustment.

I don't get wheels hitting arch liners at 355 mm. I doubt you would at 340 mm but you would hit the bump stops sooner so perhaps more prone to crashing.

I can't remember the adjuster length dimensions, I could measure them but there may be differences between yours and mine such as rear spacers and front bushes - you are better adjusting sat on the wheels. Start highest and lower to the correct position.

Front tie, caster and camber I left at standard setting. Without adjustable top mounts you have limited adjustment here anyway and you may need your front sub frame shifting to properly balance everything including castor.
 
i had the Bilstein B14 pps9 fitted in my 225 coupe a few months ago. Yesterday out of curiosity had a wheel-alignment-scan by a local tyre-garage that has a system from Hunter. Below the results.

Fronts
IMG_1789.jpeg


Rears
IMG_1790.jpeg


Today i measured heights on all wheels.
(FL: Front Left, FR: Front Right, RL: Rear Left. RR: Rear Right)

Arch to wheel-center:
FL: 342 mm
FR: 345 mm
RL: 361 mm
RR: 357 mm

I don't notice anything while driving to be honest but would prefer to have all aligned properly/perfect.

What are your thoughts...?
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #36 ·
Front is lower than rear. Heavy duty rubber top mounts would have helped at front.

Could get fitters to remedy alignment although you might want to realign the sub frame slightly to balance things up. You might also want to take your results.
 
Thank you vm John-H.

How negligible ... or not ... is the height difference between left and right?
In fronts: left is 3 mm lower than right
In rears: left is 4 mm higher than right

John-H said:
Front is lower than rear. Heavy duty rubber top mounts would have helped at front.
Bilstein b14 is height adjustable, so should i lower the rear end to match the front end?
I had found the below, not sure if correct though:
Lower front and higher rear ride height - the weight of the car is shifted towards the front. Provides more stability while accelerating. Brake response is faster since weight is already where the braking power is highest.
Equal front and rear ride height - weight is distributed equally.
High front and Low rear ride height - the weight of the car is shifted to the rear, provides immediate throttle response during acceleration. Not bad thing during the start phase, but braking response will suffer too much. Because we are not talking about Drag race, this configuration is not used very often.


John-H said:
Could get fitters to remedy alignment although you might want to realign the sub frame slightly to balance things up.
Also with the new suspension, were fitted in the wishbones the cookbots including rear bushes with increased caster https://www.cbauto.co.uk/cookbotsincbush
not sure how much does it affect on alignment.., or what value should i target to get?
(Castor angle (not adjustable) ........ +7° 58' [+8° 15' sport])
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
The sleeved / smaller bushes in the TCA won't affect alignment.

Having the rear higher than the front is not so good as the roll centre line drawn from rear roll centre to front roll centre means that under braking whilst turning the rear can go light and cause overseer as the centre of gravity is above the roll centre and greater at the rear. The car pivots along the centre line. In the extreme it can behave like a fork lift truck and tail spin. If you keep the rear low you reduce the tendency.

Rear adjustable the bars can help but from experience I know that the above roll tendency can be made worse by setting less negative camber which raises the rear height too. Toe, camber and height are interrelated at the rear.

I've got mine set to 355 mm all round which works well for me as I want to avoid problems with speed bumps and ground clearance etc.

I think I'd try raising the front to balance things but as I say, there's a maximum height extension Bilstein recommend - that's to do with the piston extension that might hit the stop too soon on rebound. Uprated rubber top mounts help as they raise the vehicle without extending the piston to the same extent. But you could just try raising anyway. If it's a problem you'll notice crashing over speed bumps etc as the pistons hit the stops and the rubber top mounts drop out and the retaining cups hit the body.
 
i really should sort mine out, its never been done since subframe was removed twice now.
 
John-H said:
The sleeved / smaller bushes in the TCA won't affect alignment.
My 2001 came with standard suspensions, so the caster should have been +7° 58'. I guess now that car is lowered do i have to realign the subframe in order to make it +8° 15'? (as per below photo, my left caster is 7.30 and right 8.08)
Since doing all this effort, should i have some poly fitted for subframe?

John-H said:
Rear adjustable the bars can help but from experience I know that the above roll tendency can be made worse by setting less negative camber which raises the rear height too. Toe, camber and height are interrelated at the rear.
I will try to make both rears (left and right) same height, but if still difference in camber, i think Rear adjustable tie bars is the only way to correct camber, right?

John-H said:
Having the rear higher than the front is not so good as the roll centre line drawn from rear roll centre to front roll centre means that under braking whilst turning the rear can go light and cause overseer as the centre of gravity is above the roll centre and greater at the rear. The car pivots along the centre line. In the extreme it can behave like a fork lift truck and tail spin. If you keep the rear low you reduce the tendency.
Do you think that an upgrade of anti-roll bars would make the rear end more heavy/stable? like the H&R 25mm front / 21mm rear? or just make all heights even at 350mm?
would an upgrade on anti-roll bars help stability/better handling? (either different height fronts/rears or same)

John-H said:
Uprated rubber top mounts help ...
Poly or LCR top mounts?

thank you.
 
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