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2011 2.0 TFSI - Another Cam Follower/PVC Valve Question

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7.6K views 29 replies 6 participants last post by  Tonipoloni  
#1 ·
Hi,
Sorry if this has been asked a million times.
I have a 61 plate 2.0 tfsi and not sure what the engine code is for this engine?
Does this version need the cam follower and pvc valve doing as a matter of maintainance like my old Mk5 Golf gti?
Also, is it worth upgrading the diverter valve also?

Thanks
 
#2 ·
Check your VIN sticker for the engine code (3). The sticker is either in your owners manual or sometimes stuck on the bottom of the boot/trunk.
For figuring out what all the option codes mean (5), click here.
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The sticker lists the following data:
-1- Audi identification number (chassis number)
-2- Audi type / engine power / gearbox type
-3- Engine and gearbox code letters
-4- Paint No. / Interior equipment No.
-5- Optional equipment codes
-6- Fuel consumption and emissions*
Fuel consumption and emissions*
Information on the Audi A1's fuel consumption and emissions is given at the bottom of the Audi A1 data sticker -6-:
-A- Urban cycle consumption (ltr./100 km)
-B- Extra-urban cycle consumption (ltr./100 km)
-C- Combined cycle consumption (ltr./100 km)
-D- Combined CO2 emissions (g/km)
 
#3 ·
If you have a 2011 then it's almost certainly an EA888--either a Gen 1 (CCTA, CBFA, etc.), or Gen 2 (CESA, etc.) engine. Check to make sure as per SJP's post above but you should also clearly see you have a cannister oil filter up top--on the right hand side (left hand side when looking into the bay, driver's side in UK).

Also the PCV valve (not PVC heh :p ) is completely different than on the older EA113s. However it's actually just as failure prone and causes a much bigger problem if it does fail--both will create an oil leak but in different places. On the EA113s if the PCV fails you will typically just blow out the valve cover gasket. On the EA888s when the PCV goes bad you will blow out the rear main seal--a much more expensive and labour intensive job to fix.

Even more important on the EA888s is the timing chain and tensioner. On an MY11 you'd definitely have the time-bomb tensioner originally. If that has never been changed previously you'll want to change that ASAP--at a minimum with the revised tensioner, preferrably if the car is near/over 100k kms, probably a full timing job. The timing gear, despite being a chain, is actually way more of a headache (and poses much greater risk) on these engines than the EA113's belt drive.
 
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#5 ·
Option codes you can use an online decoder but TBH they are not that accurate.

Anyway you have a CESA engine which is a "Gen 2" EA888--same as a Gen 1 but with the VL system on it--should be 211hp/258lb*ft, stock power. No need to worry about the cam follower (EA888s run the HPFP with a roller tappet follower via the exhaust cam; early HPFPs are known to fail but nothing to do with follower and no damage to be caused to the camshaft).

But, you def. need to worry about that chain tensioner. If you're not the original owner check any service records you have to see if it was ever changed. If not, get that inspection cover off and see what tensioner it has ASAP. The old one is a ticking time-bomb which can let go at any time and if it does, bye bye engine (well at least the valves/head). Check this post/thread below for more info on the tensioner and how to identify:


Said this many times here and it seems to come up often, but I'll say again... Check this ASAP. Do NOT leave an EA888 engine with the old tensioner alone and continue to drive around with it. The old version tensioner is a time bomb and when it lets go, catastrophic engine damage will occur.
 
#8 ·
Just joining this now - thanks TT'sRevenge for your advice on PCV and chain tensioner.

My TT is a 2011 CESA 130k miles on the clock (and I want to keep long term) - and perhaps worth saying that there seems to be very little out there - especially on Youtube - that represents this engine. I'd like to think that because its a Gen 2 it suffers from fewer issues than some of the other/previous variants of the TT engine?

I've talked to the chap who looks after my TT about timing belts and chains as well as PCV and he seems to take a more relaxed view as he regularly checks my car and would know if anything was due to 'go'. I'm pretty sure he once said to me that the timing chain had an auto tensioner which reduces the need to change it, but I could be wrong??

I'm guessing that you speak from bitter experience TT'sRevenge and what you say has only strengthened my resolve in having these two areas looked at.

On the roller tappet follower, and actually because I believed (Youtube) that my car had the earlier follower that is prone to wear and should be changed if this is the case, I replaced my roller type with a new one. Pics below. Probably didn't need changing in retrospect, but it has a new one now and new seal too, so peace of mind/belt & braces etc!

Pics - old follower on left - new one on the right side.

Great to see the CESA engine discussed here though - always interested in anything that will extend the life of my TT or help me future-proof it.
 

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#10 ·
Just joining this now - thanks TT'sRevenge for your advice on PCV and chain tensioner.

My TT is a 2011 CESA 130k miles on the clock (and I want to keep long term) - and perhaps worth saying that there seems to be very little out there - especially on Youtube - that represents this engine. I'd like to think that because its a Gen 2 it suffers from fewer issues than some of the other/previous variants of the TT engine?
It's unique in that the CESA is the only transverse implementation of the Gen 2 engine. The B8 A4/A5/Q5 all used this engine, and since they debuted, but in the longitudinal variants (common codes like CDNC, CAEA, etc). So the Mk2 TT is the only transverse car* that got this engine. That's why you don't see much on YT. It's better (for ppl with this engine) to watch vids on A4/A5/Q5s, since it's the same thing only mounted the other way. But really the main difference to the Gen 1 is simply the valve-lift system. The rest is pretty much the same physically, from the outside.

*Note when I say "only transverse car" it's possible some Seat or other car make we don't get over here also got it and I'm just not aware.

I've talked to the chap who looks after my TT about timing belts and chains as well as PCV and he seems to take a more relaxed view as he regularly checks my car and would know if anything was due to 'go'. I'm pretty sure he once said to me that the timing chain had an auto tensioner which reduces the need to change it, but I could be wrong??

I'm guessing that you speak from bitter experience TT'sRevenge and what you say has only strengthened my resolve in having these two areas looked at.
Haha thankfully I'm not--I never had this fail but seen many horror stories. I had an MY08 A3 with a CCTA engine which would have had that old tensioner but that car was written off in an accident before the problem was even well-known. The MY13 A3 I still have, also has a CCTA engine but it was built with the updated tensioner...thankfully. However it still has the old chain, and it's getting up there in miles so I'm probably going to do the full timing job next year. Last time I checked the timing value it wasn't too far away from the "time for a timing job" value, so it's pretty much that time now. Sucks because it's nowhere near the 175k kms one could get out of the belt on the EA113s, but them's the breaks. At least putting the K04 on (which I did like 5-6 years ago) was easier and cheaper since I didn't have to upgrade the HPFP or injectors ;)

Again though if you have the old tensioner, get it out. This is the one piece of advice that should be taken on any EA888 Gen 1 or 2 owner. Note that I never understood why they called the Gen 2, "Gen 2". It's not really anything newer in design, it's just the same engine designed at virtually the same time, with the VL system on it. So the tensioners are the same and were not revised (either engine because it's the same part) until some time in 2012. Cars manufactured prior to mid-2012 or so, would definitely have the old tensioner unless it has been changed after the car was bought. Even cars built in 2012, it should definitely be checked as it was a running change and who knows when they ran out of original tensioners. If you have an MY14 or later it's pretty certain you have the new one I would say. (The chain I don't think was updated until CY14 or possibly 15, meaning the majority of these engines do have the old chain.) Chain wear is more something that can be detected though, and replaced before anything bad happens. The tensioner is a different story--when that spring clip goes AWOL it's a sudden game over, just like that. No warnings, just one day your engine is done for. A lot of people have had this happen from a cold start, just like that. The earlier failures were luckily covered by warranty--I recall some people had entire engines replaced. However if you somehow still have this tensioner in a car today you're almost certainly out of warranty and the time to get it out of there is NOW!

On the roller tappet follower, and actually because I believed (Youtube) that my car had the earlier follower that is prone to wear and should be changed if this is the case, I replaced my roller type with a new one. Pics below. Probably didn't need changing in retrospect, but it has a new one now and new seal too, so peace of mind/belt & braces etc!

Pics - old follower on left - new one on the right side.

Great to see the CESA engine discussed here though - always interested in anything that will extend the life of my TT or help me future-proof it.
While the follower would wear I guess, I've never heard of it being that much of a problem. I did have the HPFP fail on my 08 car probably after like a year or two. It was replaced under warranty but I never dug any deeper as to what exactly failed or how it failed. I also heard about other HPFP failures around that time but never anything more than the same--ppl had theirs fail and replaced under warranty. I think that was revised early on, like 2010 or so, so I don't think it was ever a lasting problem or concern. If you've replaced it, sounds good but I'm not sure it's all that necessary. Never really heard of people taking this out and checking it periodically. I'm sure it can fail (any part can) but never seemed much of a concern.
 
#9 ·
Tonipoloni said:
snip-> I'm pretty sure he once said to me that the timing chain had an auto tensioner which reduces the need to change it, but I could be wrong??
As your timing chain stretches, your tensioner takes up what would otherwise be slack in the chain.
It accomplishes this via spring pressure and a one-way ratcheting mechanism. The spring keeps the tensioner in contact with the chain and the ratchet prevents the spring from 'bouncing' back.

As the chain continues to stretch the ratcheting arm will extend one tooth at a time to keep things tight (auto-tensioning) Problem is, early version tensioners were prone to failure, allowing the timing chain to suddenly go slack, resulting in loss of timing -> causing pistons to collide with valves -> major engine damage / destruction.

Audi / VW went through several revisions before they figured out how to design one that didn't fail...
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#13 ·
I think it's getting too indepth for me lol
You guys crack on :D
Ha! Apologies Paulanderton. Feel I've hijacked your post and taken this a little off at a tangent - but actually this is the huge value of this brilliant forum in educating us all on the many aspects of caring for our beloved TTs - AND hopefully avoiding any horrible happenings and expense!

Thanks to all - but especially those with what I would call next level (from my knowledge) experience 🙏🙏🙏
 
#16 ·
This post might come in handy -


As noted, if you have VCDS, you can pull up the LBL file from the VCDS folder which will be displayed on the VCDS Measuring Block window shown below. You can search for this file with the Windows search function and open the file with a text file reader (e.g. MS Notepad).

Within that file you can find the expected values for other engines in each of the Groups. The image and Label File shown below is specifically for the BUB 3.2 VR6.
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#21 ·
Just checked my timing chain live data via OBDEleven. My is at -4.83 after 5mins idling.
Probably need this doing also!
**On a side note: Gave the car a thorough service today including spark plugs. Noticed on banks 1+2 there was a bit of oil on the old plugs. Never had this before. What could this be?
Cheers
 
#23 ·
Just checked my timing chain live data via OBDEleven. My is at -4.83 after 5mins idling.
Probably need this doing also!
**On a side note: Gave the car a thorough service today including spark plugs. Noticed on banks 1+2 there was a bit of oil on the old plugs. Never had this before. What could this be?
Cheers
This is caused by leaking cam girdle seal--very common. I've had one cylinder leaking like that for years on my A3. It doesn't really cause a problem until it's bad enough the oil either starts pouring out/down the engine and/or fouls the coil. Oil itself won't damage the coil but the oil in the engine has metallic particles in it, which may well do it. Problem is, unlike the EA113s, the EA888 doesn't have a "valve cover" per se in the same way as the EA113. So while on the older engines is a pretty quick/easy job, on the EA888s there is no gasket (it's a sealant) and you have to pull the entire cam girdle to reseal it, which involves a little more and also involves keeping the cams in place so they don't move--not a bad idea to just do this job at the same time as the timing chain.
 
#25 ·
Just by way of an update here...
Whilst I feel I may have overstayed my welcome with my last post - above - I've made a few discoveries since then, which I wanted to share.
  1. I tested my timing chain stretch without allowing the engine to reach temperature so the reading I got was not helpful
  2. I spoke to my mechanic and shared the reading of 4.3 - at which he said that if the chain stretch was that bad I would certainly know about it - and he knows that my engine is running pretty nicely.
  3. I spoke today with Audi and they told me that my car left the factory with the updated timing chain tensioner - 06K 109 467K - and the image they shared with me - below - matches those I've researched on line and the images shared on this forum.
  4. I've further discovered that there is a grommet on the side of the lower timing cover that if removed allows for a visual check of the timing chain tensioner, and I plan to do this check to confirm what Audi have told me.
  5. I have asked my mechanic to price up a full timing service - including new timing chain, tensioner, guides and bolts as well as timing cover, which is an expensive part but is often damaged on removal. I expect this to be around the ÂŁ1,200 mark including around 4-5hrs labour.
  6. I have also asked Audi to price up parts, and these are also attached below with part codes which may be helpful for anyone with a CESA 2011 engine.
 

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#27 ·
Hi Paulanderton - yes I did and the value was less - and seemed to jump around between 1% and 3%, but I'm still not entirely sure I'm measuring this correctly with my OBD11. For me the most important thing is checking/confirming that my car has the newer timing chain tensioner, and then I can relax a little after all the talk about the older parts failing without notice.
I'm fitting a new PCV valve this weekend - found one which seems OK for just under ÂŁ30 on line (the Audi part is nearly ÂŁ90 from Audi). I haven't checked mine to see if the diaphragm has failed, but I'm assuming that the car has the original factory-fitted part so will most likely not be in great shape.
I've also been aware of a very slightly rough idle, so I'm hoping that the new PCV will smooth that out and give me peace of mind from now on.
I've also had three oil leaks, two of which I've fixed myself, and one which requires a garage's attention, and I wonder if, whilst common on TTs as they get older, these leaks were helped along by a failing PCV. I've heard that a damaged PCV can force seals to deteriorate and fail.

How are you getting on with your car?
 
#28 ·
Hi. Yep getting on fine thanks. I've sorted the damaged front suspension and got the ABS light to go out by fitting a new speed sensor and splicing in new wiring. I was just thinking of taking it for an MOT now all the dashboard warning lights are out and then Blam! Got another warning light on the dash for the back brake lights. I checked and they are out on the passenger side.
I'm hoping it's not the bad earth that seems very common. I've bought a couple of bulbs so I will see. I just need a couple of front tyres also.
On the PCV front, I'm going to buy one from Audi. I know you can get them cheaper on ebay etc but I've heard bad reviews on them and for me it's not worth the chance for an extra ÂŁ60 or so.
 
#29 ·
Good to see you're reviving this car and fingers crossed it sails through the MOT once youve nailed the bits and pieces.
You're right - always safer to go down the genuine parts route - especially for critical parts - but an awful lot of these parts are made in the same factory and are OK.
I'll update here once I've fitted my new PCV....
 
#30 ·
Finally bought my OEM PCV from Audi - around ÂŁ105 + vat and fitted it. No apparent change in running but peace of mind - especially after having the main seal replaced - and wont need changing again.
Re-checked my timing chain stretch on OBD11 and turns out to be -4.46 degrees out - and I've confirmed that I have the old style tensioner - so building up to my biggest engine DIY to replace timing chain, tensioner, guides, bridge, seals, serpentine belt, single use bolts etc - also things like dipstick and tube while I'm in there - AND with my fingers firmly crossed, solve the fairly major oil leak that I suspect is coming from either the upper or lower timing cover or one of the seals.
And really looking forward to driving the car hard once all the work's done, as I'm worried to even turn the engine over while I have the old tensioner threatening to go at any moment!

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