These are the four movable flaps that sit in each intake manifold?

 

Does this mean a CEPA engine has 5 flaps?

 

Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

• check vacuum line from solenoid to actuator
• check actuator can be moved by hand
• perform calibration in VCDS (after running/shutting down car - needs vacuum), see if actuator moves properly, see if actual value changes in VCDS

if I had to guess, the flap position sensor on the end of manifold has died, and everything is working but you're getting a constant position reading of 0. Replace the sensor (requires pulling the manifold, at least on the RS) and you'll be good

 

Ive been looking at walnut blasting videos recently and it’s difficult to see, given their construction, how one flap could fail Independently.

 

The error relates to Bank 1 not cylinder 1. On the regular engine there is only one bank. (And I’m not sure that the v6 would be reported as two banks but it might)

 

And so I learn a bit more thanks.

 

Fault code links from the Ross Tech wiki -

18436/P2004/008196 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1: Stuck Open
008196 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1
P2004 - 004 - Stuck Open

18438/P2006/008198 - Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Closed, Bank 1
008198 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1
P2006 - 001 - Stuck Closed

 

Matt,

Thanks for the info. A few questions.

Where do I find the actuator and solenoid? Not sure which ones you are referring to.

Does the actuator need to be replaced in order to check its movement?

Where do I go in VCDS to perform the calibration you mention?

Is the position sensor you refer to the item at the end of the manifold in your second picture? Audi seems to call it a Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor pn 07L-907-386-B.

 

In the Wiki page for the fault codes I listed above, there's a link under the Special Notes as to which basic setting to use and a link on how to do it.
I just gave it a quick look, so be sure to check that it covers your engine.

 

In the Wiki page for the fault codes I listed above, there's a link under the Special Notes as to which basic setting to use and a link on how to do it.
I just gave it a quick look, so be sure to check that it covers your engine.

Thanks SJP. It’s crazy how one part can have so many different names. The IMRS is also the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor and Swing Angle Sensor.

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my post. There is a lot of information presented and I’m still a little confused.

According to the fault codes my intake manifold flap is both stuck open and stuck closed. I assume this isn’t happening at the same time. How can this be going on with absolutely no impact to how the engine runs? Runs smooth and pulls great.

Why is the EPC light only coming on about 50% of the time and only after I first start the car? Half the time it does not come on when I start the car and if it does I can make it go away by turning off the engine and quickly turning it on. It never comes on later during driving the car.

Given that this issue appears to me to be electrical and not mechanical could just a sensor be going bad? How would I confirm it?

Does anyone have a picture of the flap and exact location? None of the drawings I’ve seen illustrate it. Is it an integral part of the manifold? I’m leaning towards taking my car to a shop as this job looks to be above my mechanical abilities. Is it easier than it looks? The CEPA document in the KB does not show removal and assembly of the lower intake manifold.

 

According to the fault codes my intake manifold flap is both stuck open and stuck closed. I assume this isn’t happening at the same time. How can this be going on with absolutely no impact to how the engine runs? Runs smooth and pulls great.

Why is the EPC light only coming on about 50% of the time and only after I first start the car? Half the time it does not come on when I start the car and if it does I can make it go away by turning off the engine and quickly turning it on. It never comes on later during driving the car.

Given that this issue appears to me to be electrical and not mechanical could just a sensor be going bad? How would I confirm it?

Does anyone have a picture of the flap and exact location? None of the drawings I’ve seen illustrate it. Is it an integral part of the manifold? I’m leaning towards taking my car to a shop as this job looks to be above my mechanical abilities. Is it easier than it looks? The CEPA document in the KB does not show removal and assembly of the lower intake manifold.

No, it's mechanical based on the DTC. The flap is sticking open when it should be close and close when it should be open. When flap get stuck it will not let you rev the engine above 4k rpm. The intake flap is inside the lower intake manifold near the cylinder head.

 

“According to the fault codes my intake manifold flap is both stuck open and stuck closed.”
You need to take a physical look at it. I’d read this as something is jammed by carbon deposit. Computer wise its logical. Stuck open and stuck closed are the same thing…. To a computer.

 

Wolvez- Thanks for all of the workshop instructions above. FYI, my engine has never been limited to 4K rpm. Always happy above 6k rpm. Very strange.

 

Yeah because the flap is just sticking. You will get a warning not to exceed 4k rpm when the flap is stuck. Sorry I got a little confused.

On 2.0 with plastic intake manifold the half moon shape rod connected to plastic lever which is conneted to the motor gets rounded. It's not sold separately without the manifold. The flap is getting stuck because of carbon buildup in the half moon shape rod.

 

After much thought I’ve decided to take my car to the local VW/Audi/Porsche dealership (50 miles away) for at least a consult. This job is much more complicated than I can handle.

Hopefully, the EPC light will be one when I get there. I was told they could care less about my VCDS scan. if it’s not on I’m SOL.

My only other option is a high end European shop that does Ferraris, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. They are very $$$. I live in the middle of no where so my options are very limited.

If the problem is a stuck(ing) flap in the lower intake manifold then the total cost is going to be a lot as there are a lot of things that need to be removed before the manifold can even be accessed. So parts will need to be ordered and the work done. Hopefully, once the part(s) come in the install can be done in a day. Is there anything additional that should be replaced proactively since the engine is torn apart?

 

Interesting comment about your VCDS scan, most people would be quite interested in fault codes. Go figure.

Since you have VCDS, you're entitled to post on the Ross Tech Forum. Just like in this Forum, state the issue (copy paste from here) and post your autoscan (required by their forum) and see what the guys there advise.

And on the point of Audi's inconsistency on naming things and trying to locate them, I've seen that too between different documents. But what is consistent is the number VAG assigns to devices.

Thankfully, the VCDS DTC actually identified not only the name (which might be called something different in other documents) but the device or component number, in this case it's G366 as reported in the fault scan. Here's the reference from the Ross Tech Wiki page -

To find where G366 is located you can do it one of two ways, (1) go into Workshop Manual A005TT20021 - Wiring Diagrams & Component Locations or (2) go into the engine specific Workshop Manual for your engine if we have it in the KB. In either case, you can use the PDF search feature to find G336.

Note - Workshop manuals are in the KB here.

Here I have used the Wiring Diagrams and Component Locations manual, and with the search feature, entered G366. Each time you click on the right arrow, it will search for the next use of that word or value. Regardless if name changes between documents, the number associated with it will remain consistent in all their documents, and that's what you are after. Here we first find it on the wiring diagram -

As you continue to search through this document for G336, you will find it listed under the table for Component Locations with a reference to the specific engine and the page to see it -

And here's the illustration of the 2.5L CEPB engine with the location of G336, shown here on page 34, item #13 -

So now that you know what it is and where it is, you can go into the engine specific workshop manual for additional information on how to repair and/or replace it.

FYI - for the CEPA and CEPB engines, the G336 is over in the Fuel and Ignition Workshop manuals linked here.

 

Thanks, SJP for all the info. Detailed as usual. I tried your last link and it didn’t pull up a diagram on my iPad. Will try again on my laptop pc.

I was feeling a little insulted when the Audi service rep disregarded my VCDS scan on the phone. Maybe she thought it was a generic OBD scanner.

 

Yeah, some shops can be a bit snotty when you tell them you have a fault scan.

Some time back, one of the shops I regularly use had a new guy at the counter. I asked him what they would charge to replace the #3 glow plug on my Tiguan since I had an engine warning light on the dash. The guy gave me a look and asked me how could I possibly know which glow plug was defective. I showed them the fault scan which I had printed out and highlighted the fault. The guy sort of dismissed it with that typical Swiss arrogance, and said they would do their own diagnostic scan.

Anyway...it happens.

Odd about the link. If that link didn't work, the one below is to the post for all workshop manuals.

FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study...

Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs Section Index - You can either scroll down through this post or just click on the section of interest. Section 1 - Body & Interior Section 2 - Electrical Wiring Diagrams, Communications and HVAC Section 3 - Engines (Petrol & Diesel) Section...

www.ttforum.co.uk

 

Audi dealer diagnosed problem as a faulty sensor. Part is $180 and over 4 hrs in labor. The sensor is buried in the engine. I have an appointment for next week for the repair.

 

sensor is $40 and it's a 4hr DIY. no special tools needed.

 

Matt, the price you listed for the sensor must be an Audi equivalent. Where did you find it? As for a DIY maybe I could do it and maybe not. I’ve not done much with this engine and if I mess up the dealership is 100 miles round trip. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

yes, the sensor is made by VNE and part # is 9101170. A quick search shows I was a bit off on my price, it's around $65 USD.

 

Finally got a new lower manifold position sensor installed today at the dealer. Diagnosis, part, and labor was £563. Labor was about 4.5 hours. The EPC hadn’t been on for the last week so hopefully, fingers crossed, my problem was taken care of.

 

Can you post a picture of the part they removed , or at least where the new one is installed?
Hopefully you kept the old part. It would be interesting to open it up and investigate why it failed.

 

Here is what the part looks like

And here is where it is located. It’s the piece with the white stripe.

i didn’t think to keep the old part.